Can tell me the Correct steps for reset tank, water cycling

[marimo]

Hi all,

could you advise if i have the steps right for Fire red or equivalent . no CRS
I have these :

Setup
1ft tank
1 HOB filter with lava rock+active charcoal, end with sponge filter , for BB to live
1 7W light
1 airpump for cycling and more oxygen

Substrate
Old sea mud + Riki Magic soil

Attachment 25280

Extras (NOT IN TANK YET)
Lava rocks
Calari rocks
1X Small BORNEOWILD SHIBUUDDO - Branchy Driftwood
Christmas moss
Marimo
- Planning to tie moss on all of them

I read we have to boil the driftwood 1st to prevent tannin ? Is that necessary?
I read the magic soil will absorb the tannin
The rocks are all soaked in water and wash few times
Moss are in aerated water with lava rock and charcoal for quarantine purpose

--------------

Cycling
This are some of the water parameters i tried ...
based on my memory from my 1 week old Pail aged water - declorinated

PH - 7.2
Ammonia - 0 mg/l
Nitrite - 1+ mg/l
Nitrate - 20 mg/l

I had double check fresh tap water directly and with similar results
Is it normal to have Nitrate already?

Step 1: Pour in water into setup tank
Min light is given, temperature stay 28 +
Drop fish food to start

PH - 6.5
Ammonia - 0 mg/l
Nitrite - 1+ mg/l
Nitrate - 20 mg/l

3 days later, no good results with ammonia reading even with alot of fish food
Then I put strong air pump and put ramshorn snails to eat up the mess
Add in about 20% mixture of distill water and instant de-chlorinated water to top up 3 days of evaporation from strong air pump.

Dat 4, I add ammonia bicarbonate and got 4-5ppm after 50% WC

Day 5, Did a test on water

PH - 7
Ammonia - 4-5 mg/l
Nitrite - 10 mg/l
Nitrate - Unmeasured

A Nitrite Spike in 24hrs.. is that enough? or too much? Thinking of doing a 30% WC

Qn: When should I add the rocks, wood and moss?
When can i add otto?
I guess the shrimps go in last.


Thanks !

[Ecalyte]

Hi bro Marimo,

The cycling process is actually quite a simple one. It's just the conversion of Ammonia to Nitrite and finally to Nitrate.

The first thing required is the presence of ammonia. This can be achieved through various methods, you've used the decomposition of uneaten fish food as means to induce ammonia. Slowly.. a bacteria colony will start to grow that will convert the Ammonia into Nitrite. Then a different separate bacteria colony will grow to convert your Nitrite to Nitrate. So usually your readings will go something like this

1) Ammonia will spike
Achieved from the decomposition of uneaten food that you've induced into your cycling process

2) Ammonia levels will start to drastically reduce, and Nitrite will spike
This indicates that the bacteria has already grown and started to convert your Ammonia into Nitrite

3) Nitrite levels will start to drastically reduce, and Nitrate will start to show..
This is the final level of your cycling process where your second set of bacteria has already colonized enough to start converting your Nitrite into Nitrates.

There are various ways of removing Nitrates. First is to have a lot of plants.. Nitrates to plants is like steroids for growth! Secondly is through water change. Note, water change will never drop your Nitrate to zero, all you're doing with the water change is removing a percentage of your water with the nitrate content and replacing it with aged water that will have zero nitrate content. So it's more of a diluting process.

How do you know when your cycling process has finished? You've already mentioned that you have a Nitrite spike. This can only happen when the Ammonia part of the process is under-way, or concluding. So now all you have to do is wait for your Nitrite levels to go to ZERO, and watch your Nitrate go nuts That's when you know you've fully cycled..

[Ecalyte]

By right.. all your decorations should have gone into your tank before you've started to put water in. The problem with putting them in before you start putting your lifestock is that you will start to disturb the gravel to put it in place. This will induce an Ammonia spike and cause dangerous levels of Ammonia and Nitrite to be present in your tank for at least a few days. Yes, your tank has cycled.. but the amount of bacteria living in your tank is only as much as the food that's available to them. If there is zero ammonia for a long time.. then eventually your tank will actually 'de-cycle' per-se. Of course unless your tank has nothing but water in it, this is quite impossible But what is possible is that the amount of bacteria living in your water column may not be fast enough to act on the Ammonia spike leaving a dangerous level present..

So, my advise is to start decorating your tank now. Start monitoring your Ammonia and Nitrite levels again.. Once everything is back to zero, then add your life stock.

You have a very small tank, and your filter media is probably not enough for you to have plenty of life stock in there.. so please update us on the amount that you're thinking of putting before you actually put it in. The bros here can then advise you on whether or not it's feasible Plenty of deaths have already been reported thus far here.. let's prevent more from happening!

Also, my advise is to use ShiZhen to treat your water. Our PUB have been putting Chloramine instead of Chlorine to treat our waters for some years now, and Chloramine cannot be dissipated through aeration. I believe it has a half-life of about 6 months. So the only way to treat it is using anti-chloramine. If you intend on keeping shrimps, be very careful with the brands of anti-chloramine that you buy. A lot of these products do not tell you the contents of the bottle (this has to be illegal in some way...) and may contain heavy metals that are very harmful to your shrimps. I've experienced it first hand and have had many painful losses

[Ecalyte]

One last thing..

Due to the small size nature of your tank, refrain from putting too much decor into the tank. This effectively reduces the water volume and further leaves your tank vulnerable to sudden changes in your water parameters. Of course to the most diligent and experienced of hobbyist, this is not too much of a worry.. but from your questions I gather that you're somewhat starting out and just learning the ropes. We're all still learning! So to prevent your learning process from becoming a series of head and heart aches, take all the necessary precautions! Be a true blue kiasu Singaporean! Haha!

[marimo]

Wow thanks for the equivalent long reply to my long question !

all you're doing with the water change is removing a percentage of your water with the nitrate content and replacing it with aged water that will have zero nitrate content. So it's more of a diluting process.

So when ammonia 0 , nitrite 0 , nitrate spike maybe 50-60ppm ? do a WC with aged water. My previous aged water is like 20ppm already
Is there a rule to continue feed the BB everyday after changing water to bring down nitrate lower before the livestocks are introduced ?

So, my advise is to start decorating your tank now. Start monitoring your Ammonia and Nitrite levels again.. Once everything is back to zero, then add your life stock.

Yes it make sense to prevent a mini cycle again after i put my deco in, the internet gives different version saying plants will compete with ammonia intake, thus taking longer to cycle

You have a very small tank, and your filter media is probably not enough for you to have plenty of life stock in there..

Planning to have 10 shrimps, 2 otto, couple of snails

the only way to treat it is using anti-chloramine. If you intend on keeping shrimps, be very careful with the brands of anti-chloramine that you buy.

I will go back and check my solution again

Due to the small size nature of your tank, refrain from putting too much decor into the tank. This effectively reduces the water volume and further leaves your tank vulnerable to sudden changes in your water parameters.

These are all the deco I have sitting in another same size tank. The driftwood float when I drop in, so using all the rocks to suppress in to sink. Was planning to put the lava rock around the driftwood to support below and also used as a host for BB when nitrite goes down.
Attachment 25292

[Ecalyte]

Hi bro,

I'm not aware of having to constantly feed BB. Actually most shrimp soils will start to leech ammonia naturally when first submerged in water to kick-start the cycling process.. Lifestock are actually ok with a certain amount of nitrate present in the tank, of course that depends on what we're keeping.

CRS are definitely more sensitive, but you want to keep a hardier species (Fire Red). So... I think 20-30 is ok. Once you hit that level.. start adding your life stock and do another 10% water change the week after. Why so little? Well your tank volume is so little that anymore will drastically change the water parameters and might kill some lifestock due to the shock.

[reiner09]

Hi marimo,
i actually did something very drastic to my 4L tank today..i changed near 50% of the water..I thought i would have shocked my crs,but no..they are more hardy than i thought..feeding normally,climbing all over the place..

The above users gave very good advise and instructions..just be patient it will usually take 2wks or even more to complete cycling..

[marimo]

Your CRS are commando !

I need help again. today I check again, Not that I am paranoid but this is the unusual reading

PH - 6,5
Ammonia - 5+ mg/l
Nitrite - 0 mg/l
Nitrate - 20 mg/l

In 24 hours, Nitrite drop from 10 to 0
Ammonia stay high and Nitrate remains same

The only thing I suspect is Ammonia is actually rising to 10mg/l , Out of chart as the stupid waterlife is from 5 and 10, and the orange solution can barely match both similar


Ammonia Nitrite Nitrate
_
_
_
_
_ _ _


Ammonia spike still, Nitrite down to 0
Today is 7th day




Where did I screw up?

This is out of the textbook

Any also I hit toto, the ramshorn snails lay 10 over cluster of eggs all over my tank -_- and poo more than i can imagine

[marimo]

one more important qn is
Does light speed up the cycling? I reading different opinions on web
I know higher PH and temperature helps

Chloramine
I have check my conditioner , a taiwan brand Tzong yang, not shizen
its NH/CL aqua reliever
No mention of chloramine

Anyone knows what is photo synthetic bacteria ? 光合成活菌

[reiner09]

wow..something is seriously going wrong..check if your conditioner contains formaldehyde..

[marimo]

forma what ? Will i get cancer?
haha
sorry but the formaldehyde wiki just drowned me with the cheemness

the conditioner did not say its ingredient

My analyse is the 1st nitrite spike is cause by disturbance of substrate when the air pump was introduced and blew a corner upwards. But that is unlikely , because nitrite now completely zero.
Earlier was very light yellow . possible 0.5-1ppm. Now its totally clear, because usually when I add agent A then agent B, it will change yellow immediately, now nothing happened. I thought something was wrong and I redo the test again. Confirm nitrite Zero.

Any chemist here to explain the trauma?
let me guess .. the nitrite bacteria commit suicide?