Technical discussion of HTML, HTTP and Caching

[Blue Whale]

^_^ I view the source for AQ, it does not have the pragma tag in < head > tag, which specifies the expiry time for the page. The so-call server cache is referring to proxy cache.

Most people, will just close the browser, then relaunch the browser. Simple enough? hee hee hee...

[vinz]

^_^ I view the source for AQ, it does not have the pragma tag in < head > tag, which specifies the expiry time for the page. The so-call server cache is referring to proxy cache.

Most people, will just close the browser, then relaunch the browser. Simple enough? hee hee hee...

Less IT savvy people would understand the word 'server' better than 'proxy'.

Closing and re-opening the browser will not make the proxy cache serve you a new version of the page if it is not already serving updated ones.

Pragma is not a tag. And it does not specify expiry time but 'no-cache'. Expiry time is under 'expires'.

Setting expires have advantages and disadvantages. Also it has to be used sensibly. AQ pages does not change all the time. A thread could be unchanged for days, weeks or months. Even in a day, a popular thread could be viewed 10s or 100s of times before some posts something. Secondly, some search engines will delete 'expired' pages from their results. Thirdly, it will significantly increase the load on our server.

Our pages work fine without meta expires. Only in some cases, an overly strict cache serves stale pages.

[Blue Whale]

Less IT savvy people would understand the word 'server' better than 'proxy'.

Proxy is a service on a server =)

Closing and re-opening the browser will not make the proxy cache serve you a new version of the page if it is not already serving updated ones.

Local cache only. Client only, not server effective.

Pragma is not a tag. And it does not specify expiry time but 'no-cache'. Expiry time is under 'expires'.

http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html
Refer to 14.21
w3c is the place where all html codes are being regulated.

As per Choy mentioned. You can execute Ctrl + R to reload or you can alternatively user F5. Both does the same job for Firefox and IE. Safari, the google browser both dependant on IE as the main engine so it will also work.

[vinz]

Proxy is a service on a server =)

That still makes no sense to our users without further explanation. My intention here is to make it understandable to our users.

Local cache only. Client only, not server effective.

Exactly what I said.

http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html
Refer to 14.21
w3c is the place where all html codes are being regulated.

Yes, W3C is the organisation that determines the standards for many internet technologies, including HTML.

Pragma is NOT a HTML tag. It is not even defined in HTML. It is one of the HTTP header fields. The document you linked to is NOT about HTML but about HTTP Header Fields.

We can simulate a HTTP header by using the http-equiv and content attributes of the HTML meta tag.

Why simulate? Because the proxies and browsers will first read the actual HTTP header, then it reads the HTML document to see if there are additional HTTP header directives defined in the meta tags (if any). The meta tags do not alter the actual HTTP header sent by the server.

As per Choy mentioned. You can execute Ctrl + R to reload or you can alternatively user F5. Both does the same job for Firefox and IE. Safari, the google browser both dependant on IE as the main engine so it will also work.

What do you mean when you say that Safari and Google Chrome is dependant on IE as the main engine? The developers of Safari and Google Chrome will be sad/laughing then they hear this. One of the main reason for their existence is to be NOT dependant on Microsoft IE. Safari and Google Chrome are built on WebKit, an open source web browser engine.

Besides that, it is silly for any software engine (framework/API) to bind keys. One key point of software engines are to provide functionality without dictating the UI. Developers who adopt the (framework/API) should be free to develop their own UI to enrich their final products usability.

[Blue Whale]

Exactly what I said.

Lol..that is why I try to avoid even the word server.

Pragma is NOT a HTML tag. It is not even defined in HTML. It is one of the HTTP header fields. The document you linked to is NOT about HTML but about HTTP Header Fields.

Precisely. I programmed Singapore 1st site (MOE) that can rival Geocities in year 2000 on HTML uploading and downloading in Singapore. What you mentioned here is correct. The rest of them let's skip it.

What do you mean when you say that Safari and Google Chrome is dependant on IE as the main engine? The developers of Safari and Google Chrome will be sad/laughing then they hear this. One of the main reason for their existence is to be NOT dependant on Microsoft IE. Safari and Google Chrome are built on WebKit, an open source web browser engine.

Let's not go down all the way to API level, or we will need to bring in MDAC also. Let's keep it simple so that the general public do not have watch and engage in a "technical" thread. I pretty much want to keep it at fishy level if you know what I mean.

W32 version uses the IE engine for configuration and operation, GUI wise might look different but they are not the first ones to do this. So we can leave MAC OS one side first. Opera in fact was the first to do, so you find proxy settings, dial up settings all goes back to IE, this is before the implementation of even the framework 1.0 known to us today, etc. PHP pretty much not born yet back then. ASP, Cold Fusion were one of the few earlier web programming languages whilst Apache (web hosting server) was still at the early stages of development.

So like I said, keep it simple. I don't like to take a too defensive posture at the moment.

[vinz]

Nothing to be defensive about. I think we have established that both of us know what we're talking about, but please be accurate with what you write/say if you are offering technical advice to a technical person. I am assuming you were addressing the AQ technical team, because of what posted about 'pragma'. To say 'pragma' is a HTML tag and then link to a HTTP technical document does not come across in good light.

Nevertheless, I thank you for your good intentions and we're more than happy to accept technical suggestions via PM.

[Blue Whale]

Nothing to be defensive about. I think we have established that both of us know what we're talking about, but please be accurate with what you write/say if you are offering technical advice to a technical person. I am assuming you were addressing the AQ technical team, because of what posted about 'pragma'. To say 'pragma' is a HTML tag and then link to a HTTP technical document does not come across in good light.

Nevertheless, I thank you for your good intentions and we're more than happy to accept technical suggestions via PM.

I could recommend a pragma tag in the header. But for users in a proxy enviornment, it might not help much.

Edited: If you want to put something. Here is what I used to do. [url?xxx=123&ttt=yyyymmddhhmmss] where ttt made of date/time arranged in ascending order. Whilst ttt is not a value being reuse, it does "bluff" the browser to "think" that this a new page. So upon loading of each page, the url changes. As the value is incremental, it will can repeat on two pcs but hardly on one. This is provided the url is not being bookmarked.

Worst scenario I encountered in a MOE environment (Free lance), was that A logins, B logins but see A profile. C logins can see A or B profile but not C profile.

I think let's stick to Ctrl R and F5 will suffice.

[Blue Whale]

I pretty much don't do Cold Fusion / ASP programming nowadays.

2 years back was playing Grando, so I made one site.
http://gegalaxy.50webs.com/index.html

You can view it if you interested. Currently I do not play the game anymore so the site stops 2 years back. Moreover I forgotten the loginid and password to access the site too. You'd have to excuse me.