Killifish eggs reputable sellers?

[SCOPE]

Ah you mean llikilli. I have never dealt with this person, but in general my experience with Bulgarian sellers have been good. Note that most of the species he is selling, might not be suitable for SG's climate unless they get some chillers running.

Thanks bro,
i had change my mind of those cold water species after your explanation.
Look that the choice on species for our warm climate is rather limited

[stormhawk]

Yup, and in our case, mostly lowland Aphyosemion/Simpsonichthys/Fundulopanchax species are suitable. Those highland species that require cooler temperatures, like the tiny Diapteron, are definitely not for us unless we give them a chilled tank.

So far for our climate, suitable genera are as follows:

Most SAAs (South American Annuals - Simpsonichthys, Austrolebias etc.)
lowland Aphyosemion (Aphyosemion australe, calliurum etc.)
Most Rivulus (except those that come from highland areas)
Epiplatys
Poropanchax
Lamprichthys
Nothobranchius
some North American species
Aplocheilus

among other genera. Rest are generally not advisable unless the hobbyist wants a major challenge.

[SCOPE]

Bro, well explained! Very helpful guide indeed

[edwardchuajh]

so many species out there.. if we were to collect them all =P

[mozaqua]

Edward, on Aquabid, I only trust Pillet. He is a French breeder and very trustworthy. I used to buy eggs all the time from him. Some of the Bulgarian sellers are nice people too, especially Metcho.

Nothobranchius fuscotaeniatus is a very beautiful species. However with the Thai breeders, what you see, may not be what you get. Mind you, that image on the killipark website, is stolen from some other websites. The Thai sellers do not take their own pictures. They just grab the best images off the Internet from hobbyist sites and pass them off as theirs.

Stormhawk, Not all of the Thai breeders steal pictures....Some of us take our own . But I agree Killi park's pics are copied. Have not dealt with him before, so I can't comment on the quality of his stock.
Many breeders here are good, but the better ones are the smaller ones. Some breeders charge hidden shipping charges to make the eggs look cheaper. Just read the conditions, and don't jump on something just because it is cheap.
I got some eggs from PunPair (his UN at the time) and 1 out of 3 was good quality the other 2 were not. Shipping was domestic, but he insisted on the full rate.... I only try to deal with more reasonable people now and days.
Goes the same for breeders in any country, try to work out the details in advance if you are not sure. Most are happy to oblige, but some are difficult to deal with (just pass them up).

My results with eggs from Kenjiro has been bad at best. I don't know how he packs them, but once I received a few bags that were filled with dry peat. It was almost dried out. Needless to say, I found no eggs among them.

Oh, I tried getting some eggs from Kenjiro, and he never took the payment. I sent him multiple emails after winning his auction, and he ignored me. Then a few days later, he re-posted the auction. Not sure what that is about, maybe does not want to sell in Asia.


A few of my favorite breeders are Pillet, Kiril (Emagic), Karl Walter (killikarl), Nikokillies (good croms./scripts.) to name a few. I know I am leaving a few out, but it is good to try new guys every once and a while too.

[stormhawk]

Hi Mo,

Geez for punpair to charge you the cost of shipping based on international rates instead of domestic is ridiculous. Some of the Thai farms doing business on Aquabid stole their pictures from the now defunct killi.net site and many other websites, not just from fellow hobbyists. I know that the picture of their Simp. carlettoi is from Pillet's listings. I know there's at least one Thai seller that uses his own pictures, but his selection is usually restricted to just 2 species.

Someone once told me that they'd mix in some females with males of the same species, but different strain and breed them that way to maximise production rates from the fish. I don't know how true that is, but yeah, it's best to know what you're getting. Since you're in Thailand, why don't you visit their farms directly? I think they're located near Bangkok?

As for Kenjiro, bleh. He is very polite, as with all Japanese, but his eggs are no stellar product. In fact at times what he sells is his own self-bred colour variant. For example his Austrolebias nigripinnis RK99 is self-bred for more bluish spots. It's not a locality code but rather his own. Good for fun, but I rather keep geographically coded fish.

You are better off dealing with other people in that situation. Maybe he just doesn't want to deliver to a location in Thailand in particular. Some people are like that. You can see this on Ebay, where some sellers refuse to send parcels to Italy etc., or countries with very slow Customs clearance processes.

[mozaqua]

Hi Mo,

Geez for punpair to charge you the cost of shipping based on international rates instead of domestic is ridiculous. Some of the Thai farms doing business on Aquabid stole their pictures from the now defunct killi.net site and many other websites, not just from fellow hobbyists. I know that the picture of their Simp. carlettoi is from Pillet's listings. I know there's at least one Thai seller that uses his own pictures, but his selection is usually restricted to just 2 species.

Someone once told me that they'd mix in some females with males of the same species, but different strain and breed them that way to maximise production rates from the fish. I don't know how true that is, but yeah, it's best to know what you're getting. Since you're in Thailand, why don't you visit their farms directly? I think they're located near Bangkok?

As for Kenjiro, bleh. He is very polite, as with all Japanese, but his eggs are no stellar product. In fact at times what he sells is his own self-bred colour variant. For example his Austrolebias nigripinnis RK99 is self-bred for more bluish spots. It's not a locality code but rather his own. Good for fun, but I rather keep geographically coded fish.

You are better off dealing with other people in that situation. Maybe he just doesn't want to deliver to a location in Thailand in particular. Some people are like that. You can see this on Ebay, where some sellers refuse to send parcels to Italy etc., or countries with very slow Customs clearance processes.

Well, Thai customs clearance is fast usually, so don't think that is the issue. Maybe some folks don't want to sell to Thailand which is because of other issues.

Regarding the "farms", I don't think there are many real "farms" for killi fish. That is mostly just a bunch of hype. There are many fish farms in Thailand, but they sell fish like guppies, bettas, etc. Which are less time intensive than killifish. If there really were fish farms for killies you would have seen the price drop years ago. The fact is very few fish farms breed killifish. I have seen some imports form Indonesia, but they are easy to breed sp. like Fp. gardneri , with very generic colors.

I think a few "killi farms" here have about 20-30 species at most, which they maintain between 3-4 different breeders. My guess is not one of them actually keeps 50+ strains in the same location like they claim. Also non of them sell adult fish of the strains which they maintain. Some smaller shops buy eggs and grow out the fry of a few Nothobranchius sp. (3-5 strains) for resale in Thai.
Which would explain why I have no trouble selling my excess fish to the LFS (limited supply).
Regarding the hybrids, I have seen some people attempting to cross diff locations of the same sp., but no location codes are given in LFS around here anyway. When I sell fish to the LFS, I don't give the full LC either... it is not good for business, for a few reasons. One is some armature, would be breeders, get my fish then resale them for dirt cheap. After 1-2 generations the fish have lost all vigor and are very poor quality. Then the stores stop buying from the amature guy, but expect the same low price and it's very hard to get more even for better quality.
Also keeping the strain pure is not a priority by many armature breeders, so no point of giving a code for them to mess it up.

"Since you're in Thailand, why don't you visit their farms directly? I think they're located near Bangkok?"

About 1 1/2 yrs ago I called a few "farms" none of them would allow me to arrange a visit. Could be for various reasons though. I suspect the main reason would be to maintain intellectual property. People love to copy, especially when they think it is something "easy", even if there is nothing easy about it. It is definitely a tricky way of business here in Asia. It takes some cleaver tactics to stay ahead of the game.
Quite a different angle from the US, regarding aquarium stuff. If I import some fish into the US, and breed them to sell to the LFS, I would not have to worry about someone else breeding my fish for a long time. Here, on the other hand, the first pair I sell; 1 gen later I see them show up in the same store I sold them to in the first place.
So, I learned that lesson the hard way (twice). Another time was with some dwarf shrimp. I imported the shrimp, and sold a few to the LFS to help cover the shipping cost. They starting breeding them before me, and did not want to buy any more. My net =0.
That is probably the reason many shops only import species which are difficult to breed.

[stormhawk]

Yes indeed most amateur breeders won't care about such codes etc. Here in Singapore, the killifish are supplied by a farm in Johor, Malaysia, from what I know. They are packed individually in tiny plastic packets. Their business version is even simpler. They don't sell eggs, don't sell pairs. Just males. No females. If there were any females, you can't tell the difference either, especially for Notho females. That's how they keep people from breeding them at home.

How I wish there was an importer here that would bring in wild African killies every now and then. The last import was for this weird Aphyosemion I saw with some Barbus candens. I still can't identify it properly.

I guess the farms do not do public walk-in visits, like some farms here.

[RonWill]

Mosiah,
One thing I learned is that IF I hadn't been so anal about population codes, maintaining them and insisting to sell mine in pairs or trios [so that the new killie-keepers HAVE a chance to continue breeding them], I would have probably made a tidy profit from my 30 odd species of killies.

Then again, I wouldn't have had that much fun!

[an1l]

Hey everyone, this is Maxima on Aquabid. I've shopped more than 32 times on there, though I've gotten only 32 feedback. Lazy sellers
I've only bought by the way, not a seller...yet.

I'd recommend you to watch out for Ilikili. I won't call anyone a swindler until I have solid proof but he's a very likely suspect.
Whenever an auction goes for a high price; let's say Rivulus Obscurus eggs sold for 100+ euros, 2 days later you see him listing "R. Obscurus - VERY RARE!", 3 days max. Usually on "buy out now", too.
Diapteron Fulgens sells for 50+ euros and there he goes again, in 2 days he lists it.
I've seen him do this for at least 10 different rare species.
He never puts his own photos, always takes from the web.
I don't think he has any of them.

To add up, once I bought 2 packages from him. 1 had no eggs in it; the other came with a few eggs and they never hatched.
His is the only peat I got zero hatches from and he's the only guy I left a "neutral". Thinking back on it, I wish I had given him a good old negative score.

But anyway, just a heads up.

[an1l]

As for the reputable sellers: I have had %100 hatch rates from Igneus, Lakermi, Rasaabt and Spdskr. Some of those were diapteron and rivulus so I guess that says something. I've also had good hatch rates from CoryCory and Killifischblackforest.

I think Cinna is a great seller but somehow I could never hatch a single egg from him and I must have bought 3-4 times. All were diapteron cyanostictum. I also bought fish from him and they were diapteron alright. Male made it but female died in the post (first and last live fish order for me...poor thing). One thing I would like to note/ask is the male diapteron looked sort of washed out and bigger than I expected. So I remember wondering if it was either a bad fish or a hybrid of Georgiae perhaps ? I have a photo if you're curious.

So yep, that's Aquabid for me so far.

[RonWill]

It's been too long since I ordered any killie eggs or shipped in live fishes. EMS service was costly and usually the deal breaker. At that time, my area of interest were non-annuals (mostly Aphyosemion and Chromaphyosemion), and peat-packing work against short incubation period and our hot weather.

However, if I had to do it again, I'd still opt for young pairs or trios, packed in breather bags and fastest delivery possible. Slow overnight drip-acclimatization for the newcomers to prevent TDS shock and introduce live foods ASAP. Ditto for non-annual eggs and IMHE, only breather bag packing with a hint of methylene blue/malachite green will work.

Won't be dipping my fingers into Aquabid anytime soon since I'm preoccupied with breeding parrots but talking about killies never fail to bring on a smile and fond memories.

[daguldfisher]

haha bro! we have very similar hobbies! but currently cannot get my cockatiels yet as the current place does not allow pets. so i must wait for 3 months more. now i can only do my orchids and my acquarium hobbies.

[nuart]

Any recommendation where to get non annual killies in singapore? Any good starters to recommend?.

[Emokidz]

You can get some Notho species at C328. That's about it, unless you know some fellow hobbyists keeping them.

[Don90]

Hmm... any problems for killi eggs when you order online? like will it get confiscated by customs?

I'm interested those not found in singapore like N.sp.Caprivi Salambala NA 07-1, Nothobranchius ocellatus "Pakacha" TZ 2008-28, Nothobranchius malaissei Sange DRCH 2008-06, Nothobranchius fuscotaeniatus. I seldom see these few on aquabid.

I also like alphanus, but i think they need brackish water so i decided to give it a miss.

I'm a sucker for nothos, but i'm not into the usual nothos that i see around here.

[RonWill]

Annual eggs are usually peat-packed in little ziplocs and shipped in padded envelopes. Not an issue with local customs. You have a nice wish-list!! Work harder on it and BTW, Nothobranchius fuscotaeniatus is a beautiful Notho that I used to keep. Good luck!

[Don90]

Hi Ronnie, where do you usually get your killies from? In the past I mean.

I cant seem to find alot of those species I like, especially my favourite N.sp.Caprivi Salambala NA 07-1.

And I find Aquabid very risky, those sellers in the "safe" list usually don't have those species I want.

[RonWill]

There wasn't a "safe" list when I started and often risked receiving nothing after payment. Then there's another group of sellers who don't ship beyond continental USA or out of EU countries but... you might want to lurk over at AKA's forum and put in a request. Perhaps Lady Luck is on your side.

If you're game to spare the bucks, wait around for Stormhawk to show up. He might know.

BTW, how do we address you? I'm Ronnie... as if it wasn't obvious enough!

[stormhawk]

Aphanius are indeed brackish water species, and they require good clean water to survive with some algae growing. They are highly territorial, especially with regards to the males. Once, we did have Aphanius mento being sold locally as a commercial import, but many did not get purchased for this very reason. Aggression is high in Aphanius at times.

I can answer you roughly as to which sellers are "trustworthy" or not, but if I have not dealt with them directly in the past, it is at your own risk. There is no issue with our local customs as long as the sellers mark the contents as sterile peat. After all, they're just bags of peat for most part. For everything else, on Aquabid, it is entirely at your own discretion. Some sellers can be very accomodating, and some are downright rude. Others just pack the eggs really badly.

For example, I used to deal with a French breeder for SAAs regularly in the past, and occasionally on request, he'd send me his price list. His method of packing was alright, but sometimes I wish he'd give more peat to cushion the eggs. However, another French breeder I dealt with, sent me eggs of A. hera twice, second on my request and both times, his packing was lacking in many aspects. Time taken for eggs to arrive from locations overseas like Europe and the USA can be VERY long via normal Airmail. On average the time it takes for a package to arrive from France is 2 weeks, from Germany about 1.5 weeks, from the USA, depending on the seller's postal area, about 2 weeks. These long shipping times usually means Non-Annual eggs do not survive very well.

If you wish to acquire N. sp. "Caprivi", look for sellers like Bela89, or one of the Notho specialists. The prices can be high since they usually charge in Euro, but you can probably expect good packaging, especially from these Notho keepers. Many American sellers do not ship outside the USA for various reasons (especially one Notho keeper), and when it comes to Asia, they'd only ship to Japan and nowhere else. Funny, considering how they want foreign species to appear in the USA from breeders OUTSIDE the continental USA. This is why I tend to source my killies from European breeders. That said, not all US sellers are bad, some are really good and go to great lengths to ensure your eggs arrive safely and in good order.

IF you are purchasing from a US seller, always ask for Global Priority Shipping or EMS/Express Shipping. They have a Flat-Rate envelope from the USPS which should not cost too much for a few bags of eggs. From Europe, ask for the same thing, if they have a faster mailing method. This of course depends on the species you are ordering. With annuals, they can survive the long transit times if the packages are well insulated. Just remember to have someone at home to receive the eggs if the postman/deliveryman arrives. The worst thing you can experience is the eggs "frying" in your post box because you opened it late.