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Thread: setting up a 2ft tank

  1. #1
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    setting up a 2ft tank

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    Hi Guys;

    DISCLAIMER: I AM A NEWBIE TO MARINE WORLD AND FISH TANKS. SO HERE IS MY PROBLEM>

    I just recently bought a Ocean free 2 ft tank. The LFS were i bought the tank, did give me few tips on setting up a new tank. But unfortunately it is not working at the moment. Let me tell you my problems first.

    Problem 1. The LFS shop guy told me to fill the tank with water and add an chemical to remove the chlorine content * which i bought from him*. He told me to leave the tank for 1 hr and later drop the fishes in the tank. I did the same. Everything was fine the whole night, until next day to my nightmare i found that the water is too cloudy and all my fishes are reaching the top of the tank.i had to clean the filter and empty half tank and fill it again with water.

    Problem 2: I had asked several time the LFS guys if i can put Discus fish and gold fish in the same field. HE GAVE A BIG YES and made me buy it. The next day both my lovely discuss died.

    Problem 3: The tank becomes very smelly.

    Problem 4: I bought a solution to clear the tank * i forgot the name*, it was refered by the same LFS guy and this time the water got cleared along with the FISH. MY GOLD FISH DIED. luckily my discuss survived.

    Problem 5: The next water again became cloudy, even after changing the filter and this time my discuss died.

    Currently i have 2 more discuss and 2 gold fish left. Any inputs to increase thier chances of survival.

  2. #2
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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Ah, this is new tank syndrome.

    Do not worry, a lot of people make this mistake. First thing you need to know are the big three elements of a fish tank. Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. When you first start a tank, there will be a lot of ammonia in the water, ammonia in high amounts is harmful to fish (harmful in low amounts to fragile fish as well). Fish waste, excess food also causes ammonia to build up.

    Ammonia is broken down by bacteria that will reside in your filter, which convert the harmful ammonia into nitrite. After this, another type of bacteria will convert the nitrite into less harmful nitrates. In your case, because your tank is so new, this bacteria has not have had the chance to build up and colonize your tank yet. As a result, your fish have died from ammonia poisoning because there is nothing to break the ammonia down.

    You can read more about new tank syndrome here http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_syndrome.php

    Meanwhile, I would suggest you try to find another home for the 2 discuss and goldfish if possible. What you need to do is a fishless cycle, which means just leave your tank and filter running for at least 2 weeks with no fish. (1 week is possible for very hardy fish, but I would suggest 2 weeks minimum just in case)

    An alternative is to buy more hardy fish that can withstand the cycling period, like the zebra danio. Do not worry if the water becomes cloudy during the first 2-3 days, it's natural. When I started my first tank the water was cloudy for almost a week before it cleared up.

    As for the smell, I'm guessing it is because of the dead fish. I have no experience with discuss or goldfish but they sound like a bad combination, I would not suggest to put them together. The LFS guy you talked to may just be trying to make a sale.

    My suggestion would be to take the fishes out of the tank, do a full water change and start a fishless cycle.

    If you really can't get the fishes out, I would do a partial water change and hope for the best. Remember to dechlorinate the water before putting it into the tank. Also, there are plenty of resources on the net regarding starting a new tank, remember to research on fish before deciding on them! Sometimes you just can't simply trust what LFS people say, it pays to be careful. Hopefully the other AQ members can give you better advice, as I'm not as experienced as them.
    Last edited by kailath; 21st Jan 2010 at 01:13.

  3. #3
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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Your discus will run out of space in that 2 ft tank if they start growing bigger, as will the goldfish. As kailath has mentioned, you have to cycle your tank before adding in fish. This can take anywhere from 1-2 weeks to nearly a month or more.

    After using the anti-chlorine, you should get some bacteria starter for the tank to aid in establishing the bacteria colony faster. Stuff like Waterlife's BacterLife works pretty well in this aspect. What is the filter you are using? Please share the model. Is the tank planted? A picture of your tank will help a lot too.

    Your LFS guy is just interested in ripping you off. With his misinformation, he's not really helping you, nor is he being a responsible seller. He knows that if your fishes die etc, you'll end up going back to buy the same fish again, as with most people who start out without doing prior research. Selling you the anti-chlorine is good, but if the type of anti-chlorine does not remove chloramine, it is essentially useless. Buying the "clearing" solution does not help either. It can remove the cloudiness but at the expense of doing something else, in your case, killing your goldfish.

    Goldfish and discus do not mix. Goldfish are coldwater fish, that prefer alkaline waters at times. Discus are delicate warm water fish, that prefer acidic conditions. They are not meant for beginners. Furthermore goldfish are massive poop making machines, and if your filtration is not up to the mark, your tank can easily break down.

    You should always do research on the Internet before you purchase any fish for your tank. Planning in advance is always better than rushing into buying fish for your tank. Mixing the wrong kind of fish in a community setup can always end up with bigger problems later on.

    You made a mistake on "problem 1" as well. If the fish are gasping, they are lacking oxygen. The lack of aeration in a tank can kill your fish, especially discus and goldfish. The cloudy water is caused by a bacteria bloom, and this adds more problems for the fish. When you cleaned the filter and changed 50% of the water, you are subjecting your fish to further stress. Things like an ammonia absorbing material like zeolite, can help a lot on this aspect.

    Though most importantly... how many discus and goldfish did you have originally? How big where they?
    Last edited by stormhawk; 21st Jan 2010 at 07:32.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Hi Storm Hawk and Kailath;

    Thanks for the valuable advise. I guess i had to do some research before buying the tanks. The problem is I didnt expect Singapore water to be so much chlorinated and chemical treated. Hence i thought it would be normal to out the fish after a few hrs of setting up the tank. Anyways, i would try this method and will see the outcome.

    @storm Hawk; my initial purchase was 4 gold fish and 2 discuss, then my 2 discuss died, later my 2 gold fish died, initally i thought the discuss was lonely so it had died and i purchased 4 discus and 2 gold fish. so totally 8 fish, 4 gold fish and 4 discus. recently 2 more discuss died.

    Pity them. I would post the picture of my tank soon. i have planted some plants as well, but soon i found that the plants also died.

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Well the tap water values differ from area to area. Some people have pH 7.5+ water right from the tap. Others have lower values.

    Try not to keep discus in a 2 ft tank, especially with goldfish. If you just want goldfish, keep it a bare tank, and make sure your filter is running well. Start off by adding just 1 goldfish. In a 2ft tank I would not keep more than 4 or 5 goldfish. The discus need a bigger tank. If you want a cheaper fish, that is not as delicate as discus, try out Angelfish instead.

    When introducing fish to a new tank, you must do this slowly. Sometimes the tank water from the LFS can be different from the water you have at home. I usually throw away as much water from the bag, and then slowly pour in my tank water, bit by bit. You can use a drip system instead. This reduces stress on the fish, and lets them acclimatise slowly to your tank water. If you just open the bag and drop the fish in, some will just die from shock.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    well i think you trust your LFS owner too much in dispensing advice. Although these guys know some knowledge about the hobby, most of it is probably just enough to get you to buy their stuff. Your trying and failing and trying again works for the LFS because you end up buying this and that to 'remedy', and that is to their advantage. My advise to you is to look around this forum, there is all sorts of information and knowledge regarding almost all kinds stuff pertaining to the hobby. Try to understand the basics first and make sure you are confident before going out to the LFS to buy what you need. I am sure many of us here have went through that phase. Good luck and have fun!

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    You may want to do a bit of planning. Do you like goldfish more or discus more?
    Goldfish:
    It is easier to keep goldfishes with bare tank, and they need higher PH water. They eat alot, and produce a lot of waste. They grow quite big, and only about a max of 1-2 goldfishes will fit into a 2ft tank. Most people keeping goldfishes keeps them in a bigger tank, and change water religiously, so that they grow big and nice. I have 2 large filters for my 6 goldfishes, and added a bag of coral chips to make sure the PH is buffered, and maintained at above 7 to 7.5. I do a water change of 90% per week and do a 100% water change with cleaning and scrubbing of tank once every 2 months. Goldfishes are hardy and can take all these water changes.

    Discus:
    Shy fishes that grow quite big too. Can be territorial. So only a max of 1-2 discus can live in a 2ft tank. Happier in a planted tank. (You may want to find out more about planted tanks, which is alot of work too)Particular about water, so anything that polutes it is a big no-no. Prefers lower PH water, and I read in the wild, that can go below 5 (rather acidic). Discus don't like massive water change.

    You mentioned you planted some plants, and they died as well? (rot?) The rotted plants is also polluting your water. Likely they are not rooting well, the light level or the substrate is wrong. (You planted them in soil right?)

    I don't think the chlorine level is the problem here, if you are dosing your anti-chlorine correctly. Your water is cloudy and smelly due to the high ammonia level. Check for that. Don't recommend using chemical to get rid of 'bad water'. Your fishes will suffer. You will need to do a water change regularly to keep your fishes alive.

    Since you have all these fishes already, and if you are not able to house them with someone else, you may need to fast-track the cycling of the tank. If you have any fish keeping friends, ask them for some dirty filter media (which contains all the good bacteria) so that you can put it in your current filter. Better do this fast. End of the day, you will need to decide if you want to give up your goldfishes or your discus. Hope you don't get to discouraged or lose your interest. Many people starts with a 2 ft tank with many different fishes and graduate from that.
    Last edited by sthh; 21st Jan 2010 at 12:46.
    My fish friends --------------------------------
    1 goldfish tank
    1 discus tank

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Hi Guys;

    Thanks a lot for your comments. I am not Going to give up, the fire in the belly is rapid. I have decided to do watever it takes to save my Discus. The gold fish is a real killer ( it can take care of it self).

    Ok one last question, IF at all my discuss dies, can i put a parrot fish in a 2 ft tank. Is there any special assistance need to be followed for setting up this parrot fish. This is just the case that in case my Discus dies. As far as my gold fish is concerned, i am planning to tranfer it to a different tank.

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Bro,

    Discus hard to live with Sir-shit-alot (goldfish) unless your filtration system is superb. Fish are also living things so you might wish to cycle the tank for a few more days.

    What ever you do, don't act rash. We are all impatience and lazy people.

    Problem 1. Chlorine takes time to go away don't change water and add even more clorine before it goes away, i leave water overnight and still add anti chlorine for newer tanks or when i just cleaned my canister filter. You need to research for this, lots of people suffer samething. Smile phrase, patience my padawan. My Cycling period was 1 week when i started.

    Problem 2: he never mention will die or not, do research even after you ask LFS just to be sure next time. You will learn from mistakes and experiences don't worry .

    Problem 3: The waste from "Sir-shit-alot" is too much for your current filtration to handle. You gotta improve on this, what are you using now?

    Problem 4: What solution did he sell you? "BADUN" ? It may not be the solution at all. You goldfish might be signaling to you to have cleaner water. (P.S: LOL him again, is he intentionally making you buy more livestock by doing this?)

    Problem 5: Cloudy water does not mean your fish will die, High chlorine content from tap water does.
    Learning the hardway, not the highway.
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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Quote Originally Posted by maddyhunt View Post
    Ok one last question, IF at all my discuss dies, can i put a parrot fish in a 2 ft tank. Is there any special assistance need to be followed for setting up this parrot fish. This is just the case that in case my Discus dies. As far as my gold fish is concerned, i am planning to tranfer it to a different tank.
    Yes you can keep Parrot Fish in your 2 ft tank, but why? They are ugly hybrid fish. Their care is simple as long as you give them enough food, and the filter is up to the task.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Parrot fish are hybrids of cichlids. If you really like them, do look up on the care of cichlids. However, there are many other very nice cichlids that you can choose from
    My fish friends --------------------------------
    1 goldfish tank
    1 discus tank

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Like all Bros said, need to cycle tank first before fish comes in Bro

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Fish tank need to be so called cycled. But what exactly, does cycled means? It means running your filter on with the soil. I have attached a visual thingy to this reply so you have an idea.

    During cycling the water gets dirty, being the maint. guy, you would need to clean the fiters from time to time. Once you get the clear water, you can start adding the bacteria as per what StormHawk have told you. If you have a good soil, you would likely to do it halftime.

    Given the condition of your current tank, I believe your gold fish will not make till the end. Both the discus and gold fish actually requires certain temperature. Gold fish are not accustom to sharp temperature drop as like recent days. Without a heater to maintain a certain temperature, they won't survive. Likewise for Discus.

    Perhaps if you can give a hint as to where you are living currently, our fellow forumers would better point you to a more responsible LFS.

    You are very wavvy currently at heart, between Discus, parrot and goldfish, I would rather you keep go ahead and specialise in Discus. Pick one that is good looking have some form of value return, give you the most satisfying result. Aim for it. Nobody starts off being an expert, even as year passed, we are still students of planted tank. You have to decide your very first step. Then a path can be carved out for you to follow.

    For a few weeks, if you have a pail/spare tank, put a pump in the pail/tank and transfer the remainder fish in first. Temporary keep them there until you have condition the tank. The sooner you do this, the better survival chance of the fish. Water must be dechlorinated, put 2-3 drop of blue med and a small pinch of salt. I will list some meds here.

    - Nutrafin Aquaplus (Dechlorination) - The big fan bottle behind the Alife iron bottle in the center. Click here to better see it http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/cat...m-products.asp
    - or Genesis (Dechlorination) - http://www.aquariumguys.com/genesis4oz.html
    - or Kordon Novaqua (Dechlorination) - http://www.novalek.com/kordon/novaqua/index.htm
    - Ocean Free Blue medicine. $0.90 -$1.00 - The blue ones on the right, keeps most harmful disease out.

    Last edited by Blue Whale; 22nd Jan 2010 at 21:16.

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Hi Friends;

    Today is a sad day for me as all my fish had died. I tried to save them . Anyways, i am learning my lesson. and have started the cycling process as other bro's have mentioned. pls help me if i need to do anything other than the items below.

    1. cleaned the tank - Checked
    2. Added the water and antichlorine - checked.
    3. Waiting to add bateria starter after 2 days.
    4. Added few plants to the tank.

    Anything else need to be checked. Your advise are greatly appreciated.

  15. #15
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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    maddy, what fish do you intend to keep?

    What done is done, you have to let go. Change the water and clean the filter.

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    brother maddyhunt. Just let your tank cycle well at least a week to up to a month for the BB to establish its colony well before you puts in any livestocks. May The Force Be With You.
    CRS - CRazy about Shrimps
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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Whale View Post
    maddy, what fish do you intend to keep?

    What done is done, you have to let go. Change the water and clean the filter.
    Bro, i intend to keep 2 black ghost fish, 2 shrimps anytype ( since i am new mah, so can be satisfied), 2 dolphin face fish ( i cant get the boilogical name, i saw this recently in Qian Hu farm)

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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Quote Originally Posted by eviltrain View Post
    brother maddyhunt. Just let your tank cycle well at least a week to up to a month for the BB to establish its colony well before you puts in any livestocks. May The Force Be With You.
    Bro evil;

    Yes. I am planning to do the same.

  19. #19
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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Quote Originally Posted by maddyhunt View Post
    Bro, i intend to keep 2 black ghost fish, 2 shrimps anytype ( since i am new mah, so can be satisfied), 2 dolphin face fish ( i cant get the boilogical name, i saw this recently in Qian Hu farm)
    Can I recommend you look around first? You still need to wait for that water to clear up anyway..at least for this week. So long you can buy before next Sunday, still be in time for CNY.

    Look at the golden angel and silver golden.
    Windows media driven, can see ghost, silver, black marble also.
    http://aquariumfish.net/catalog_page...s_assorted.htm

    If possible, sex id the angel fish as well. In order to buy a pair, you need to observe the tank very long, catch the pair then bring it home. Once they are paired up, they will be partners for life. If one dies, the other will commit sucide. Here is the tricky portion, it is very very difficult to sex id angel fish for normal people. So your only bet is to observe if a pair always swim and stick together.

  20. #20
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    Re: setting up a 2ft tank

    Your new choice of fish is going to be a challenge. The black ghost fish can grow rather big and will eat whatever smaller fish or shrimps you keep. The dolphine face fish is very difficult to feed. Not for beginners.
    My fish friends --------------------------------
    1 goldfish tank
    1 discus tank

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