Ram's "odd" behaviour

[Serketa]

So.. another fish is making me excited.

I have a small pack of rams (6) and two of them have stayed in same spot since last evening. Both are okay, they are not injured. They both were nibbling the sand and there seems to be a groove and the other fish is there and the other few inches further. I'm not sure if they are opposite sexes, the other (above the groove) has much more shiny blue spots in big black spot than the other.

They are not very aggressive though the other sometimes goes closer to other fish which come nearby (as check-up or something). It's not attacking though little chasing happens sometimes when another fish from the same specie comes near. I wish I could get a good photo of it.

What do you think? Because of the dissapointment with anomalas I just can't think about spawning... It would be too good to be true. Or...?

Anomalas and my cat are driving me crazy and now rams..

[stormhawk]

If you see the smaller of the 2 rams having a purplish belly, then you have a bonded pair there that should be spawning real soon. Once they start making a territory, any other rams that come close will be chased away.

[Serketa]

I watched those two for a while and they seemed swim belly on the sand few inches back and forth. They aren't disturbed when I stand and watch them. I've noticed that two of the six rams spend much time together but I'm not quite sure which ones because they look so same to me...

In case they are spawning now, when am I able to see the babies? How many days will it take for the human eye to see them?

This is exciting.

[Serketa]

Yes, the other has purplish belly.. I think - at least she had. Do rams have adipose fin? I saw some kind of small "pipe" coming from behind belly's fin.. I hope I wrote this right - I can't explain it better.

[stormhawk]

That small pipe, if you saw it just before the anal fin, that is the female's ovipositor or egg depositor. If all goes well, they should be spawning very soon. It is possible that they will lay eggs in the pit they dug up. If you want, you can place a flat rock in the tank near where they are. Rams usually spawn in the pit or a flat rock or a cave depending on their liking.

[Serketa]

Hmm, the pipe was between dorsal and anal fin, but almost attached (but not attached) to the anal fin.

I just took a peak and I'm NOT sure if I saw some eggs in the sand... They were matta white, max 1 mm diameter...

The other chases other fish away if they come too close.. The other is guarding the spot where I saw those what I think are eggs.

As teenage speaking - OMG

I really wish them to succeed! Though I've heard that rams don't look after their hatched fry - is that true?

[stormhawk]

Some pairs don't, but usually they do. If they are guarding the eggs against other fish, then you are fine. As long as you don't see the parents trying to eat the eggs, they will guard the eggs and any resulting fry diligently. Give it a few days and the fry should soon hatch. Your worry now is whether the parents will be too stressed from the attentions of the other fish. No worry though, let them do their job at guarding the eggs.

Congratulations by the way.

[Serketa]

Okay - just one more question:

I do have one flat rock in tank, should I put it today near the pair or wait few days and then put it there? From the rock it would be easier to see if they have laid their eggs. My sand is quit light in colour.


stormhawk - my photobucket ID is Serketa, I'll put the photo(s) I was talking about few days a go there.

[stormhawk]

That's okay you don't have to move the rock for now because they might get stressed out and end up eating their eggs. If they have already laid eggs and are guarding the clutch of eggs, that is fine enough.

In fine light coloured sand it's not easy to see the eggs. They're like yellowish colour if fertile and might not be clearly seen, especially if laid in the sand.

[Serketa]

Oh my oh my oh my.. I took a peak on the pair again and now I DID see the other drop something on the sand from it's "pipe".. it wasn't a poop surely.

I'm not sure about egg's colours, the other fish was nearby... We'll see how I can concentrate in schoolwork, while I think about the rams and possible hatching fry...

I feel like a five year old kid waiting for christmas..!

[Serketa]

Do rams have some sort of "mating ritual" before they lay their eggs? I mean some other ritual than cleaning the groove or rock and male's fight over the female with other males?

[joopsg]

Do rams have some sort of "mating ritual" before they lay their eggs? I mean some other ritual than cleaning the groove or rock and male's fight over the female with other males?

Ram's ritual very simple.
The pair will first guard the place they want to spawn on. Flat rock or gravel (will dig up the gravel totally sometime).
Next cleaning the surface to lay eggs.
Anything that is flat to be exact.

Then, they will spawn within hours after this ritual.
once its done.
Kill any intruder on sight.

[ahkiatz]

My couple ram is like fighting one another every day. Guess no babies for me

[Jitticus]

Fuzzie, in my experience, some pairs fight like crazy when they are not in the mood to spawn. You can separate them and feed them until the female has a fat tummy and turns strawberry red at the belly and then reintroduce them. Once this happens they should stop fighting and start spawning.
You may need to remove the female again once the spawning is over, as the male might start beating her up again.
As all thing cichlid, each pair is different and each individual is different. Good luck in your endeavour.

[Csababá]

I observed nodding by my cacatuoides male while courting. Does it exist by rams, too?

[stormhawk]

I don't recall seeing my male Ram do that. It will flare during courtship and do a small dance. Once egg laying starts they just hover around the area. Female lays then male goes over the eggs to fertilise them.

[Csababá]

Thanks, than it was something else. I hope it wasn't because of infection or other bad things.

[Serketa]

Okay... rammypair has dug a really deep grove in the sand under bush. I was surprised, because last evening the sand was flat.

Perhaps it means fry in few days.

Well, how have you changed the water in your tanks when you have had fry or eggs there? Did you take the water only from the surface and putting the new water from other side of the tank where the fry isn't dwelling?

Friday or saturday has been my waterchanging days, so I wonder how to change it or should I leave the cleaning and do it next week?

Stormhawk - I need help, again.

Thanks for been patient with me guys!

[stormhawk]

You can do water changes, say once a week, then use a drip system to add fresh water. Remember, do it slowly, do not hurry, because some fry are very fussy if there is a change in water. They must be acclimatised slowly.

I have no idea how Ram fry react during water changes, but doing it slowly helped me with very fragile killifish fry. My friend passes his fresh tank water through a thick wad of filter material, so it basically trickles into the tank slowly.

Once a week is sufficient enough. You can do a 5% change first and see how they react. In any event, patience is the key.

[Serketa]

Thanks.

I wish they get fry, at least the other fish was dwelling in the groove. Maybe guarding. I think I'll set myself near tank to watch them for a while.

Thumbs up! If they laid eggs today, maybe they hatch tomorrow or saturday..?

This waiting is nerve-wrecking..