saltwater vs freshwater

[dnsfpl]

http://www.fishlore.com/saltwatervsfreshwater.htm

doing some research and come across this article

cheers

[BFG]

Thanks for the link dnsfpl! It would be helpful for those who might wish to try the DARK SIDE of the hobby!

[vurbul]

Yeah great link. And how true. I'm itching to go to the DARK SIDE but moneywise, it will be quite a figure I have to part with.

Still on a planning state. I just need a swing vote.

Wife say NO, daughter say YEAH!!! So what say you?...HAHAH

[BFG]

Yeah great link. And how true. I'm itching to go to the DARK SIDE but moneywise, it will be quite a figure I have to part with.

Still on a planning state. I just need a swing vote.

Wife say NO, daughter say YEAH!!! So what say you?...HAHAH

Could reach 5 figure for a 4ft tank seriously, not counting the stuff inside the tank.

[dnsfpl]

TANK
FOC to $400(2nd hand) to $4000
PUMP
$20(2nd atman) to $300(eheim) to $2000(red dragon)
LIGHT
$50(2nd T5) to $300(retrofit/MH) to $2000(LED)
SKIMMER
$100(2nd hand reef octopus) to $500(2nd hand deltec) to $2000(bubble king)
CHILLER
$100(2nd hand resun) to $500(2nd hand arctica) to $2000(starmex)
WAVEMAKER
$30(sunsun) to $80(2nd hand hydro/tunze) to $500(vortech)

LIVEROCKS
FOC to $3/kg to $10/kg
LIVESAND
FOC to $50/pack

basic setup can be as cheap as $500 to more than $5k
so work on your budget

HTH

cheers

[cdckjn]

I think mine marine tank after 4 years I spent about a total of $400 - it is a 2ft with another 2ft tank as sump. Mine is a super low-budget low-tech setup.

It really depends what is the livestock you want to keep? It is FOLWR (Fish Only With Live Rock) or a full LPS (Soft coral type) or SPS (Hard Coral Type). Of course the cost goes up with the type of coral you intend to keep. No coral = low cost.

I have also keep marine school tank - no light, no chiller, nothing just hang-on filter but only 1 fish - still survive for 1 year already.

Marine is not that difficult.

[vurbul]

I think mine marine tank after 4 years I spent about a total of $400 - it is a 2ft with another 2ft tank as sump. Mine is a super low-budget low-tech setup.

It really depends what is the livestock you want to keep? It is FOLWR (Fish Only With Live Rock) or a full LPS (Soft coral type) or SPS (Hard Coral Type). Of course the cost goes up with the type of coral you intend to keep. No coral = low cost.

I have also keep marine school tank - no light, no chiller, nothing just hang-on filter but only 1 fish - still survive for 1 year already.

Marine is not that difficult.

That's not too bad. I have to go for 1.5ft sumpless as space is an issue. My initial cost came up to ard $600 and thats not including LR and LS. Reworked my budget and manage to bring half. Reusing some of my old stuffs that I use for planted. But I think the figure will increase as time goes on.

Anyway is the 1.5ft tank i saw at NA suitable for marine?

[poh34]

Actually marine is quite equal to fresh in term of cost.

It really depend on how far you want to invest into your tank.

Both have their pro and con. But one thing for sure, you probably need to spend more time maintaining your marine tank than a fresh one.

cost of normal marine fishes is quite cheap/

Even sea water can get from farm at about 2 dollar per 10 ltr.

Below est price list extract from SRC forum. More info can get from this forum also.

Clownfish

• False Percula (Amphiprion ocellaris) ~ $1
• Black Ocellaris Pair ~ $75 to $80
• True Percula (Amphiprion percula) ~ Small $12 - $25, Better Grade $90, Pair $150
• Tomato (Amphiprion frenatus) ~ $4
• Tomato / Red Saddleback (Amphiprion ephippium) ~ $4
• Saddleback (Amphiprion polymnus) ~ $5
• Yellow Stripe Maroon Clown (Premnas biaculeatus) ~ $6 - $10

Tangs

• Pacific Blue (Paracanthurus hepatus) ~ $15, size dependent
• Powder Blue (Acanthurus leucosternon)~ Smaller $15, Small - $30, Big - $35
• Yellow (Zebrasoma flavescens) ~ Small $23
• Purple (Zebrasoma xanthurum) ~ $50
• Brown/Scopas (Zebrasoma scopas) ~ $8
• Sohal (Acanthurus sohal) ~ $60
• Chevron (Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis) ~ $120
• Clown (Acanthurus lineatus)~ $8
• Convict (Acanthurus triostegus) ~ $8
• Alantic Blue (Acanthurus coeruleus) ~ $80
• Achilles (Acanthurus achilles) ~ $160
• Black (Zebrasoma rostratum) ~ $350
• Gem (Zebrasoma gemmatum) ~ $2800

Dwarf Angelfish

• Bicolor (Centropyge bicolor) ~ $8 - 12
• Coral Beauty (Centropyge bispinosus) ~ $8
• Potter's (Centropyge potteri)~ $35
• Flame (Centropyge loricula) ~ $38 - $50
• Argi (Centropyge argi) ~ $50
• Golden (Centropyge aurantius) ~ $60 - $80
• Lemon Peel (Centropyge flavissima) ~ $35 - $45
• Herald (Centropyge heraldi) ~ $8
• Rusty (Centropyge ferrugata) ~ $6
• Shepard's (Centropyge shepardi)
• Joculator / Yellowhead (Centropyge joculator) ~ $380 - $550
• Multibarred (Paracentropyge multifasciata) ~ $28 - $35

Angelfish

• King (Holocanthus passer) ~ $200
• Queen (Holacanthus ciliaris) ~ $120 - $400
• Blue Face (Pomacanthus [Euxiphipops] xanthometopon) ~ $45 - $60
• Gold Face - $240 - $450
• Bandit (Holacanthus arculatus))~ $600 - $800
• Emperor (Pomacanthus imperator)~ $40 - $60
• Regal (Pygoplites diacanthus) - $60
• French (Pomacanthus paru)~ $80 - $200
• Clarion (Holocanthus clarionensis) ~ $4000 to $5000
• Scribbled (Chaetodontoplus duboulayi) ~ $80 - $250
• Rock Beauty (Holocanthus tricolor) ~ $40 - $100
• Personifer (Chaetodontoplus meridithi) ~ $120 - $200
• True Personifer ~ $800
• Africanus ~ $180 - $400
• Grey ~ $80 - $200
• Blue Line ~ $80
• Blue Angel ~ $120 - $400
• Ear Spot ~ $90 - $250
• Flagfin ~ $15 - $28
• Orange Peel ~ $38 - $60
• White Bar Maculosus ~ $90 to $110

Wrasses

• Radiance wrasse $50
• Golden wrasse - $170 - 280
• Flame wrasse male - $120-$150, Female - $90
• 8 line wrasse ??
• Laboutei - $80 - 180
• Splendid Leopard Wrasse $38
• Potter Wrasse - $28
• 6 line wrasse - $8
• Solar wrasse $10-$12
• Scott wrasse $70-$150
• Lineatus wrasse $150 - $250
• Common leopard wrasse $7 - $10
• Mystery wrasse $120

Blennies

• Tail Spot Blenny $8 - $17
• Midas Blenny $18 - $60
• Canary Blenny $28

Anthias

• Barlett's anthias ~ $30 - $40
• Lyretail anthias ~ $10 - $12
• Sunburst anthias ~ $28
• Dispar anthias ~ $8 - $12
• Bimaculatus anthias ~ $10-$12

Basslets

• Royal Gramma ~ $20-$40 (depends on size n locality usually Caribbean)
• Blackcap Gramma ~ $65
• Blue assessor ~ $35 to $45
• Yellow assessor ~ $80 - $100

Gobies

• Blue / Yellow Neon Goby ~ $20 - $40
• Half Moon Goby ~ $20
• Helfrichi Goby ~ $120 - $140
• Purple Firefish ~ $12 - $28
• Red Firefish ~ $5 - $12

Butterfly Fish

• Golden ~ $80
• Threadfin ~ $8 - $15
• Raccoon ~ $8 - $15
• Long Nose ~ $8 - $15
• Copperband ~ $5 - $15

Others

• Mandarin ~ $6 - $12, $30 or more for those weaned onto frozen foods
• Red Mandarin ~ $20
• Moorish Idol (Zanclus cornutus)~ $10 - $20

Soft Corals

• Leather Coral (Sarcophyton sp., Sinularia sp.) ~ $5 - $120 (Ultra-green morphs)
• Yellow Leather (Fiji) ~ $40
• Zoanthids: $5-10 for low-end variants, very high for rare color forms.
• Xenia (Xenia elongata) ~ $8 -$25.
• White Xenia (Fiji) ~ $40
• Common Mushrooms ~ $5 - $10 for low-end variants, $30 for rarer forms.
• Yumas (Ricordea yuma): $10 for lower grades, $50 - $200 for rarer forms
• Rics (Ricordea florida) ~ Green $25 - $30, Blue and Orange $35 - 40, Multicolor $35 - $120
• Carnation / Cauliflower (Scleronepthya sp.)

Large-Polyped Stony Corals

• Japanese Sun ~ $80 - $280
• Black Sun Coral (Tubastraea micrantha) ~
• Super Sun ~ $60/colony or S$10/head
• Normal Sun ~ $15 - 40
• Green Bubble ~ $30
• Frogspawn / Torch / Anchor Coral(Euphyllia sp.) ~

Assorted Invertebrates

• Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis) $6 Small, $12 for Large, $12 for Sri Lankan Cleaner
• Coral Banded Shrimp (Stenopus hispidus) ~ $3-12
• Blue-Legged Coral Banded Shrimp (Stenopus tenuirostris) ~ $3 - $15
• Yellow Coral Banded Shrimp (Stenopus scutellatus) ~ $3 - $15
• Blood / Fire Shrimp (Lysmata debelius) ~ $12-35
• Peppermint Shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni) ~ $15
• Unspecified Starfish ~ $3 - $25
• Unspecified Seahorse ~
• Halloween / Electric-Leg Hermit Crab (Calcinus elegans) ~ $5
• Dwarf Zebra Hermit Crab ~ $4
• Dwarf Scarlet Hermit Crab ~ $10
• Nassarius Snail (Nassaurius vibex) ~ $5
• Turbo Snail (Trochus sp. / Astraea sp.) ~ $2
• Sand Dollar ~ $10
• Coco Worm (Protula bispiralis) ~ $8 - $25
• Common Tubeworm (Sabellastarte magnifica) ~ $1 - $5
• White/Gold Tubeworms (Sabellastarte sp.) ~ $3 - $5

From the list, the price range of marine LS is very big and you can always work within your budget.

[BFG]

Nope, I don't think marine cost is equal to freshwater. There's hidden cost that is involve with having a marine tank. Water change will cost you extra compared to a freshwater. If you say natural sea water is cheap at the lfs, you forgotten the transport cost back and forth getting that natural sea water. A freshwater setup water change is easy, connecting a hose to the tap to the tank but for a marine setup, you can't use direct tap water, it need to go through a ro/di set to remove all the contaminant that the tap water has. This is just one of the difference between the 2 aquatic hobby.

In my own opinion and experience, the cost of setting a marine tank is double that of a freshwater setup, size for size. The problems too, are doubled in a marine set up as compared to freshwater. In a freshwater setup, you would worry about dragonfly nymph or even maybe mosquito wriggler, which is a rare occurence as fishes would go for them but in a marine setup, you have to worry about pest hitchhiker like crabs, bristle worm, asterina starfish, mantis shrimp, nudibranch, red bug, flatworm, boring shrimp and so much more.

Hope this helps!

[poh34]

Hi,

Actually, if you read up in the internet, it is not very recommended to have a narrow tank (4inch wide) for marine LS.
You might want to consider fresh water for this kind of tank.

But i did read up one reefer in forum keeping marine fish with such tank.
He need to do water change every 2-3 days.

As for chiller, i dont think it is visible to install chiller for such tank. There are certain coral (like mushroom, tube worm) that can tolerate room temperature.

If you insist on chiller (good to have), check out the forum for cheaper 2nd hand chiller.
You may use fan also, but it will have more evaporation to the tank. I also not sure whether wall-mount tank have open-top for the fan? Like BFG comment above, you can top up the tank with our tap water for fresh water. BUT Marine tank requires DI water for topping up.

Read more on marine tank setup before committing. Like i said, you need more time on maintaining marine tank.

Cost wise, i think that it is up to individual on the investment/budget needed.

Regards
Poh

[dnsfpl]

did some research, happen to see this thread

quite useful for those who are planning to join the dark side

[the4thsaint]

to keep corals, advisable to have a chiller. I tried my best not to have a chiller for my corals tank with installed fan and.....the water top-up I had to do per day is killing me. So I put up a chiller, fish happy, coral happy, I also happy.

[alikao]

Most aquarium keepers, particularly most beginning aquarium keepers, do not have any need for a chiller. Aquarium chillers really are for more advanced aquarium systems.

[dkwb]

so where does the puffer fish belong to?

[Urban Aquaria]

so where does the puffer fish belong to?

There are different puffer fish species that live in either freshwater, brackish water or saltwater conditions (have to google and read up on the various species for more details)... their suitability just depends on your intended aquarium setup.

[cbr_400_cbr]

Was wondering can I use those salt for freshwater for marine

[Urban Aquaria]

Was wondering can I use those salt for freshwater for marine

If you are just treating for parasites or using it as a theraputic treatment, then aquarium salt can be used... but if you are aiming to create brackish or marine water conditions, then have to use marine salt to build up the required salinity. Marine salt has other mineral components that aquarium salt doesn't have for brackish or marine setups.

[kohanson]

Have been running a 1.5 ft cube marine tank with sump coming 2 years without chiller and using tap water. I am running with a fan and the temperature hovers between 28-29 degrees. I would say the fishes and shrimps are not affected and my clownfish and my yellow tang have been with me for more than a year. Some corals can take higher temperature while some die after a few weeks. The corals that haven been growing in my tank are favia, monti, mushrooms and some zoas. if you really want to have nice corals like SPS, a chiller and good spectrum lighting like the AI Hydra is a must.

I would not recommend to use tap water as I get diatoms growing on the glass almost every 4 days but have seen a huge improvement with rowaphos in media bag in my sump.

[AQFan]

Thanks for the link dnsfpl! It would be helpful for those who might wish to try the DARK SIDE of the hobby!

It's a wonderful dark side .

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