Discussion on AQ Dwarf Cichlid Enthusiast Group (AQ-DCEG)

[genes]

Thread split from here http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...t=45503&page=6

Amazing numbers of Apisto lovers. How about an Apistogramma Club Singapore...

[doppelbanddwarf]

Genes, you can be the chairman. I'm sure many of us will love to have an Apistogramma club.

[Wackytpt]

But how many are active in them still?

Gene nominated Chairman =p

[genes]

I chairman means I can anyhow shoot arrow right? because I'm "chair-meh" (blind) mah. Ok wacky, you will go find out from the list of people, who are still active.

[Wackytpt]

Gene,

I retired =p

There has always been discussion of setting this group. The problem is the interest in those fish is not sustainable. And I believe there is more knowledgable apisto keeper out there. I believe you and I were rope in for this interest group.

You can arrowed your vice chairman, doppelbanddwarf to do that research for you.

Haha..

doppelbanddwarf,

Thanks for volutneering. Haha

[Royston]

Then I'll be the 1st small fry member if the group sets up OK?

[doppelbanddwarf]

Haha I'm just an ordinary member. So many pros here whose beautiful pictures of apistos attracted me to this genus of fish in the first place. On a more serious note, how do we go about setting up an apisto club, like the betta club and pleco club.

[marle]

I have been waiting for this day long enough! Hands up for this idea!

[genes]

My comments above was just for discussion purposes. I wouldn't be the most appropriate person to discuss on this. But here's what i think.

Firstly and foremost, you got to have a platform to host the interest. Perhaps on AQ as the platform because an Apistogramma club was mentioned before many years back. I think AQ also have the most number of Apistogramma lovers then any other forums locally.

Having said that the person heading the club will have to plan for events, gatherings once a month, once every 2 months or whichever seems logical to keep the club going. Venue could be at the LFS like Biotope, NKS or GC if the bosses there do not mind. Anyone can commit to this amidst our busy schedule?

Betta, Discus, Guppy and Pleco club organizes competition to create awareness and incite interest on their fishes. On this note, i would agree on betta, discus and guppy club competitions because they compete on hybridized fishes. So whoever creates the best looking strain wins the competition. For plecos, which i feel is similar to apistos, there is difficulty in breeding or no interest in hybridized strains, hence there is really no meaning for competitions. It boils down to whoever can find and pay for a more exotic specie to win the competition. For example, last year's winner for one of the pleco category at Aquarama 2009 was a blue eye panaque. A very rare hence expensive specie. So, i have the money, i continue to buy until i can find one fish that i think will be the winning fish... Whats there to compete about here? Who has the bigger dollar?

Also, the Apistos we get here seems not sustainable for the club. Not enough quality fishes to go around. Biotope tried bringing in quality wild caughts but because of the premium they have to pay and thus sell, the interest on these fishes are not high. Many people still have the mentality that they would rather buy a more "worth it" fish if they have to pay 50 and above for a pair of small cichlids.

To keep the strain going, like how most breeders do, you need to have a constant source of wildcaughts, baring in mind apistos are not too hardy compared to say..plecos which can live up too many years in captivity... We are lucky if your wild stocks last up to a year... If local LFS stocks are so deprived, where do we go to look for wildcaught stocks? And when they die, i am sure many keepers have gone through the issue of cannot find a replacement female or male. So where do we get them from? Bro Scope? A single person to maintain the scene? What happens if he decided to opt out?

i may have other thoughts, but keep yours coming in!

[marle]

Betta, Discus, Guppy and Pleco club organizes competition to create awareness and incite interest on their fishes. On this note, i would agree on betta, discus and guppy club competitions because they compete on hybridized fishes. So whoever creates the best looking strain wins the competition. For plecos, which i feel is similar to apistos, there is difficulty in breeding or no interest in hybridized strains, hence there is really no meaning for competitions. It boils down to whoever can find and pay for a more exotic specie to win the competition. For example, last year's winner for one of the pleco category at Aquarama 2009 was a blue eye panaque. A very rare hence expensive specie. So, i have the money, i continue to buy until i can find one fish that i think will be the winning fish... Whats there to compete about here? Who has the bigger dollar?

You are right about this. A competition promotes a healthy drive towards excellence. Without a mini compeition there to compete, it might not ignite the fuel in some lads in this aquatic hobby. For apistos, there can also be a competition for the most beautiful Apisto. around. Yes, money can buy you the most beautiful apisto and we probably might not want it to be a showcase of wealth. However, imho, this is necessary to kickstart and attract more interest into the apisto. Apisto are pretty fishes, and they will naturally attract major interest from the players here in time to come. Furthermore, upon expanding this base of players, we can have other competition categories, eg. biggest yield of fries for I.Adoketa, longest dorsal for Apisto.Bitaeniata. Such Categories require the skill set of individual players, caring for fries, having optiumum acidity of water for the best finnage, etc. Additionally, when some of us purchase Apistogrammas nowadays, we probably might not have the option to choose the looks of the fish we desire.

Apistogramma can be the next arowana fanatics, the next crystal red shrimp fantasy, the next luohan craze, and probably even better. It all boils down to how this fish is marketed by us.

Also, the Apistos we get here seems not sustainable for the club. Not enough quality fishes to go around. Biotope tried bringing in quality wild caughts but because of the premium they have to pay and thus sell, the interest on these fishes are not high. Many people still have the mentality that they would rather buy a more "worth it" fish if they have to pay 50 and above for a pair of small cichlids.

This problem will be solved once more players come into the scene(which is what we are observing now, c328 and nks is bringing more quality species in). People pay hundreds for shrimps, thousands for arowanas, and i feel a hundred for a rare quality pair is reasonable. Its just that the number of players for apistogramma loses out currently to crystal reds, arowanas, and thus this explains the inertia in paying good money for them. If we can see an increase in the number of people purchasing apistogrammas and with the start of the club, i am positive we will see rarer and more quality wild caughts in the singapore market.

To keep the strain going, like how most breeders do, you need to have a constant source of wildcaughts, baring in mind apistos are not too hardy compared to say..plecos which can live up too many years in captivity... We are lucky if your wild stocks last up to a year... If local LFS stocks are so deprived, where do we go to look for wildcaught stocks? And when they die, i am sure many keepers have gone through the issue of cannot find a replacement female or male. So where do we get them from? Bro Scope? A single person to maintain the scene? What happens if he decided to opt out?

If there is a demand and profit to be made, a supplier will surface. Currently, we see ApistoHK showcasing their jewels to us. Through my friend, i know that there are other suppliers than our beloved Scope at the moment(Thanks Joe!). Its just that the market isn't big enough for them to really penetrate yet.



In a nutshell, i feel a club will do more good than harm for the Apistogramma lovers in Singapore.

[mobile2007]

Forming a ACS club definitely a good idea and beneficial to the apisto keepers in singapore.

Some thoughts :

1. Supply and demand. Apisto are rare in singapore, but people keeping apisto are even more rare. Suppliers no longer wanted to bring in apisto as they are expensive and not profitable. It's a chicken and eggs problem, no supply, no keepers. No keepers, no supply.

2. Lack of middle tier price range apisto. Look at the market, most of the slightly higher end apisto are sellling at $80 and above. For those who kept apisto for sometimes know that apisto are easily prone to internal parasites, and the lifespan are short. Unlike arowana which increased in value when they grow older.

3. Long growth cycle. Unlike guppies/betta, apisto required a longer growth period of at least 5 months. Also, breeding alone is already a problem to some species. So, you can't mix and match like guppies and betta, creating new hybrid.

[genes]

Keep your views and ideas coming guys.

Meanwhile lets do a head count on people interested.
1) genes
2) wackytpt
3) doppelbanddwarf
4) royston
5) marle

[doppelbanddwarf]

I think there is a very small group of Apistogramma hobbyist because there is a lack of exposure to these fishes. I myself only knew about apistos because I happened to chance upon this forum. There could be hobbyists who gave up after losing their first pair of apisto. Also, if I'm new to these fishes and happened to see the tankfuls of apistos in NKS right now, I might not give the tank of small gray fishes which cost so much a pair a second glance. On the other hand, we could have a club to organise events to showcase apistos.

Competition wise, I agree that it is quite meaningless to see who has the most expensive apisto. But like what marle says, we could have a species specific competition with the not so rare species like borellis, cacatuoides, agasiziis etc. Also, an ACS could look at means to set up a tiny corner to showcase apistos during events like aquarama.

[Wackytpt]

Dreams are good.

But more on a practical basis, I would propose that a Dwarf Cichlid Enthusiast interest group be formed first before thinking of An apistogramma Club Singapore.

Reason is simple.

If we can even sustain an interest group. What is there to discuss about a club?

Sorry to be a spoilsport. I am just been practical.

Cheers

[doppelbanddwarf]

It seems that many apisto hobbyists are no longer very active.

[Captain Telecredible]

It seems that many apisto hobbyists are no longer very active.

Who Says!

[exotic_idiot]

It seems that many apisto hobbyists are no longer very active.

There there there...

[exotic_idiot]

Thread split from here http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...t=45503&page=6

Amazing numbers of Apisto lovers. How about an Apistogramma Club Singapore...

But how many are active in them still?

Gene nominated Chairman =p

Good idea genes..!
We need to update those active ones?
I have an idea but really hard for me to do it.
We can pm them one by one if they reply means active and also can ask them what they still have.. And would they like to join in the fun?

[illumnae]

It seems that many apisto hobbyists are no longer very active.

I'm still active in apisto keeping, just not on the forum. Family and work have been taking their toll, especially with my wife unwell for the past year.

I'm planning a comeback by hopefully putting my decommissioned rack to use in starting to breed a line strain of 1 species/locality.

[illumnae]

Keep your views and ideas coming guys.

Meanwhile lets do a head count on people interested.
1) genes
2) wackytpt
3) doppelbanddwarf
4) royston
5) marle
6) illumnae

count me in