How to reduce height of lilies and lotuses

[Golfmad]

Hi

Based on past postings, I understand that the height of plants are directly related to the intensity of the lights. In my 6 ft tank, I have 3x 150w 6500 MH lights. The tank is 32in deep and the lights are positioned 12 inches above the water. So given that my substrate is about 5 in deep, the distance between substrate and light is just 39 in. The MH bulbs/lamps are also unobstructed ie no glass or plastic to provide cover.

Inspite of the above conditions, my lotuses and lilies are all growing towards the lights instead of staying low. Is there anything else that should be done ?

Tks, Kelvin

PS In Teo's tank, his lotuses stay real low and his lights are mounted much higher than mine.

[Golfmad]

Sorry Moderators, I believe I posted in the wrong section. Originally, I was going to post this as a question on the positioning of MH lights. My apologies.

Rgds,Kelvin

[bclee]

You've gotta prune all the leaves that has already grown tall, leaving about 2 leaves that has just sprouted. The plant will slow down for a while and will grow lower leaves.

BC

[loupgarou]

try stunting it (no base fert, put roots in a plant pot

[tawauboy]

prune and prune.
even when you find that the leaves still look good.
after a while the leaves will be short.
once you stop pruning, they will grow tall again.

[timebomb]

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prune and prune.
even when you find that the leaves still look good.
after a while the leaves will be short.
once you stop pruning, they will grow tall again.
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Actually, I have always find this puzzling. How is it you can condition a plant not to throw out tall stems by pruning it constantly? I suppose it's easy to condition an animal, as Palov did when he trained a dog to salivate at the ring of a bell, but how do you condition a plant? The plant does not have a brain so how it could possibly know that if it throws out long stems again, the stems will be cut?

Loh K L

[bclee]

This is my experience with Nymphea rubra (hope I get the species correct).

Once a leaf hit the surface of the water, it seemed to trigger some mechanism in the plant. The new leaves will become "floating leaves". These leaves have a slightly different shape. They are a little more rounded and have a more waxy surface.

I believe there is some mechanism in the plant that make the plant repond to light and the environment.

You can also wonder why the plants grow towards the light when they do no have eyes to "see" and the brain to tell them in which direction to grow.

BC

[tawauboy]

well, i don't think we can condition the plants.

if we were able to do that, then after a few pruning, the plants will have 'learnt' not to throw out tall leaves anymore. i did not take note whether the leaf will grow bigger and the stalk growing taller simultaneously or the leaf will grow bigger at a faster rate when compared to the stalk growing taller.

if it is the later case, then we are getting a shorter lotus due to us preventing the stalk from growing tall. however, if it is the former case then there could be some 'semi-conditioning'.

[eric_kclee]

Ai yoh!

Someone from genetic engineering should help us to solve this problem. Just alter the gene, then all of us will not have to prune and prune....[]

[Allen_1971]

Generally, I agree with the stunting method... remove your base ferts, or pot yout lotus... this will keep your lotus small and short.

[hwchoy]

you guys are violating the rights of plants, you monsters! [] [] [] []

[timebomb]

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This is my experience with Nymphea rubra (hope I get the species correct).
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Plants will always grow towards light. That's a characteristic that's in their genes. So in this aspect, there's no conditioning involved. However, if you can make a plant grow away from light, then that would be some form of conditioning.

Nymphaea always throw out long stalks with leaves that hit the surface when they are first planted. After constant pruning, they stop doing so. Why?

Palov got the dog to salivate at the ring of a bell by ringing the bell whenever he feeds the dog. So after a while, the dog associates bell-ringing with food. The dog has a brain so the assocation can be made. The dog's brain also remembers the association that bell-ringing equates food so it will start to salivate whenever the bell rings.

But how does a plant remember?

Loh K L

[Golfmad]

Hi

If we just stunt by placing in a pot and reducing fertilizers, how then do we get the leaves to grow big. In other words, I like them to be big but short ?
Just look at Teo's or even BioPlasts. They have pretty big leaves with short stalks.

Rgds, Kelvin

[geoffrey]

I guess this problem with big plants shading the lights often occurs in small tank. I started of with the desire to squeeze nice big plants like the Nymphea, Nuphars, Aponogeton and Echinodorus into my small tank without thinking whether it viable or not. In the end, it not only ruined the aquascaping, it also increases maintenance.

[geoffrey]

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On 6/19/2003 4:35:34 PM

Palov got the dog to salivate at the ring of a bell by ringing the bell whenever he feeds the dog. So after a while, the dog associates bell-ringing with food.

Loh K L

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Errr... Timebomb, could the dog salivates because it also knows that it's behaviour will stimulate Palov to feed him. Okay, just joking...

Anyway enough of motivational theory from me, plants indeed do not have brains. However there are some biochemical processes within them that make them respond to different stimuli or surrounding. The process in which leaves move towards light is call photo..something, I can't remember. I read it in this thick brown book, Plants Physiology, from the NLB. You fellows may want to read it : )

[CoryDorus]

I am no plant experts. But i have done on earlier advise is to prune big leaf plant with thick stem that reach the surface or block patch of light reaching the bottom.

I done it slowly by removing one big leaf with thick stem a week else the plant will go "botak"

There's also 1 new leaf every week.

After 2 months, the new leaf is small and will grow up to half the tank height level later. Looks like the plant has been "trained".

Now I like this level []

[bclee]

The most extreme I have done is to cut all the leaves off leaving a small sprouting leaf. All the new leaves that grow out hug the gravel.

BC

[wahboy]

hello all,

i shall try to explain this phenomenon using my own logic.

when a lily is first planted, it becomes very leggy or has a tendency to produce lots of floating leaves. this is because the new plant has lots of reserves and it will use them to grow towards the light source or produce floating leaves. this is the "preferred" state of the plant. it gets more light this way.

after many prunings, the plant stays close to the substrate. It does so because it out of reserves. it cannot grow tall anymore. it channels whatever it has to producing submersed leaves. therefore it stays low. BUT when there are enough submersed leaves to support the growth of floating leaves, it starts producing floating leaves or becomes leggy again.

makes sense right?

hope this helps.

Wayne Wah

[vinz]

What I've observed...

Restrict the plant to a rich substrate (by potting, not fertilising the roots, etc) you get small leaves.

Rich substrate, you get big leaves.

Restrict the light (i.e. shading, low light, etc.) you get long stalks.

Bright lights, no shading, you get shorter stalks or slower height growth.

[timebomb]

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i shall try to explain this phenomenon using my own logic.
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Wayne, although I don't know if you are right or wrong but your theory makes perfect sense. Clever. []

Loh K L