Tank Size rules and regulations

[samhon]

Hi fellow forumers

I would like to enquire about the safety aspect in regards to size of tanks

I understand that HDB would require you to write in and seek approval for a tank that is more than 6X 2 X2.

But different sources seem to have mixed informationa about this, the following are some of my queries:


1) Is there such a limit of condominums?

2) What are some of the biggest size aquarium you guys have in your high rise HDB/ condos?

3) an extremely reputable tankmaker/marine LFS in singapore shared with me that as long as the height of the tank is not more than 3 feet, the length and width doesn not matter, as the weight load is being spread over the floor, any comments on this?


hope to get some sharings, this would really help me to decide on the size of my future tank

thanks

[vinz]

For HDB, anything as big as or bigger than 4'x1.5'x1.5' needs approval. Means if you have a 2'x3'x1.5' tank, you still need to write in. The size is a guideline, but the weight is the real concern.

1) For condos, so far we have not seen any thing that says we need to submit for approval. However, it may vary with individual condo management comm rules.

BUT, we know someone who was asked to move his 4'x2'x2' tank to a load bearing part of his apartment after random inspection by BCA.

2) I had a 6'x2'x2' in my (high rise) home before. I know someone had a 6'x2.5'x2.5' (or it could have been 6'x2.5'x2').

3) Theoretically true. The taller the tank, the more water there is per square foot. If you look at HDB rules, they allow much heavier ponds than tanks. Ponds being defined as having the entire bottom of the container in full contact with the floor.

Have you read this? I just updated the link to the HDB guidelines. Read the thread for HDB's supposed criteria for approving applications. I'm assuming BCA's guidelines, if they ever inspect your home, are similar. All the same, I would stick the guidelines for personal and public safety.

[samhon]

thank you vinz for your prompt reply, yeah i read that article from HDB, but was a bit confused when some forumers told me that their tanks were bigger and after talking to some tankmakers and reputable LFS, they also shared about making bigger tanks and is generally safe.

I was looking at probably having a 8 X 2.5 X 2.5

Do i need to engage a PE to certifiy the safety aspect?
In the event if my PE says its ok while the management say otherwise, could i produce the PE certificate to convince them?

[samhon]

Just some updates and information to share with you guys

I called BCA, and BCA advised me to call my condo management

I called my condo management and spoke to the person who is in charge of building

these are some of the things she shared

1) the higher you stay, the lower the weight bearing load of the floor

2) residential area usually have a lower weight bearing load as compared to industrial buildings

3) the load bearing weight for my place is around 5 kilo Newton per square meter (on the safe side)



Guys can anyone convert to me what does 5 kilo newton per square meter mean?

Rather i am interested to know how much weight could per square feet hold, anyone could help me do some conversion? i am really bad at this

God bless

[vinz]

One word... Google: http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert....knmsq.en.html

1kN/sqm = 101.9716kg/sqm
5kN/sqm = 509.858kg/sqm

Your tank will have a footprint of 2.4mx0.75m = 1.8 sqm

Means you can put about 917 kg on that space.

a 240x75x75 cubic cm tank = 1350 litres of water = 1350kg. And this excludes the weight of gravel, tank, cabinet, stand, equipment...

Now... say a 240x75x60(ht) cubic cm tank... that will be about 1080kg of water.

Don't forget that in actual fact, you will probably only have about 85% of that water as the rest of the tank will be gravel (assuming planted), rocks, wood, plants, etc. But then, all those are denser than water, so they actually weigh heavier than the water displaced.

Go look around the lobby area of your floor at the condo. There is usually a loading diagram somewhere.

[samhon]

One word... Google: http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert....knmsq.en.html

1kN/sqm = 101.9716kg/sqm
5kN/sqm = 509.858kg/sqm

Your tank will have a footprint of 2.4mx0.75m = 1.8 sqm

Means you can put about 917 kg on that space.

a 240x75x75 cubic cm tank = 1350 litres of water = 1350kg. And this excludes the weight of gravel, tank, cabinet, stand, equipment...

Now... say a 240x75x60(ht) cubic cm tank... that will be about 1080kg of water.

Don't forget that in actual fact, you will probably only have about 85% of that water as the rest of the tank will be gravel (assuming planted), rocks, wood, plants, etc. But then, all those are denser than water, so they actually weigh heavier than the water displaced.

Go look around the lobby area of your floor at the condo. There is usually a loading diagram somewhere.

Hi Vinz,

thanks for the clarifications on this, though it still took me some time to digest what you wrote due to my shortcomings and weakness in math and anything related.

Could i clarify 4 things one more time with you?

1)Assuming that i am installing a 60cm height (2 feet) tank, I would still exceed the load since the very conservative estimate of the a running tank would definitely be more than 1080kg of water while the limit is only 917kg?

2) it seem like the only way I could solve the problem is by cutting down on the height of the tank and not length/breadth wise?

3) if the above is true, am I right to say that for my case, any tank with 2 feet in height will be too heavy?

4) does that mean that a lot of us are in the same predicament? since anything more than 2 feet would mean that our tank's weight is jeopardising the structure of the house?


So sorry to trouble you on this, hope to hear from others too

[vinz]

1) Yes.

2, 3) There are other solutions. We'll need a trained engineer to verify my theory. I did physics only as far as A' Levels and I barely passed that. Theoretically, if you build a stand/cabinet that has a bigger footprint, then it would spread the weight over a bigger area. So lets say you go ahead with the 240cmx75cmx60cm tank. Which means about 1080kg. Add on the weight of everything else, say it comes to about 1380kg.

Working backwards, you'll need a footprint of about 2.71sqm.

That means a 3.6m x 0.75m footprint.

4) That would seem to be the case. :-p

I think we a few people to look through these numbers just for sanity. LOL.

[samhon]

Vinz,

I didn't even take Physics in O level! My teacher said that I was so bad in maths that anything with math in it would be a disaster for me, thus I was not allowed to take Physics

you have been terrific and extremely helpful in your response in this thread!

Thanks for all these information, I am sure many of us would benefit from this


NOW,

We need someone well versed in Physics to clarify Vinz's suggestion to the problem, this could be a potential life saver to all you hobbyist who is thinking of bigger tanks!

would building a stand/cabinet that has a bigger footprint, means that the load would be spread over a bigger area?

[vinz]

Yes, a bigger footprint spreads the load. But there are engineering concerns. How are they going to get it into your home? For something like this, they'll probably need to split it into two 1.8m stands which can be moved into your house. It's possible to use more than 1 stand, but they must be built to work together.

One guy put his tank and bare stand in a recessed area, then got the ID to build panels to cover the front of the recessed area, leaving just the tank visible. Of course the panels could be opened.

[leechaorui]

A small digression. Will the weight of the tank affect the parquet flooring?

[eviltrain]

of course it will. parquet flooring is made of wood. after long term of heavy load on it, there will be a recess mark. imagine striking a hammer on a piece of wood, the recess mark will be wat your parquet flooring look like years later after you remove the stand.

[samhon]

Yes, a bigger footprint spreads the load. But there are engineering concerns. How are they going to get it into your home? For something like this, they'll probably need to split it into two 1.8m stands which can be moved into your house. It's possible to use more than 1 stand, but they must be built to work together.

One guy put his tank and bare stand in a recessed area, then got the ID to build panels to cover the front of the recessed area, leaving just the tank visible. Of course the panels could be opened.

yeah Vinz, the cabinet supporting the tank would be fabricated on site.

just some clarifications on the recessed area thingy, how does building panels to cover the recessed area, leaving just the tank visible help in alleviating the load?

[samhon]

of course it will. parquet flooring is made of wood. after long term of heavy load on it, there will be a recess mark. imagine striking a hammer on a piece of wood, the recess mark will be wat your parquet flooring look like years later after you remove the stand.

gotta agree with eviltrain

my current house have a 4x2x2 fish tank with cabinet in one of the rooms with parquet floor. It's been there since 2001, and yeah there is a very obvious recess mark.

[vinz]

yeah Vinz, the cabinet supporting the tank would be fabricated on site.

just some clarifications on the recessed area thingy, how does building panels to cover the recessed area, leaving just the tank visible help in alleviating the load?

It doesn't alleviate the load. Well minimally, as the wooden panels are not attached to the stand, hence not adding to the load on the stand and the footprint. Also, it allows him to put some stuff outside of the footprint. The filter for example was at the side, instead of under the tank.

I was mainly pointing out a design aspect.

I am also curious about something... which I hope that some engineers can clarify. Is the loading strictly based on footprint? Say I have a 10m square room, at 5kN/sqm, can I put 5000kg somewhere in the room, but need not occupy a 10sqm footprint? OR must we strictly adhere to the footprint that we calculated (which is what we're doing in this thread).

Or is it in between? It will seem quite dangerous to try and put 5000kg on a 1sqm footprint in the room. But seems excessive for us to put a 2.4x0.75x0.6 tank on a 3.6x0.75 sqm footprint.

[samhon]

It doesn't alleviate the load. Well minimally, as the wooden panels are not attached to the stand, hence not adding to the load on the stand and the footprint. Also, it allows him to put some stuff outside of the footprint. The filter for example was at the side, instead of under the tank.

I was mainly pointing out a design aspect.

I am also curious about something... which I hope that some engineers can clarify. Is the loading strictly based on footprint? Say I have a 10m square room, at 5kN/sqm, can I put 5000kg somewhere in the room, but need not occupy a 10sqm footprint? OR must we strictly adhere to the footprint that we calculated (which is what we're doing in this thread).

Or is it in between? It will seem quite dangerous to try and put 5000kg on a 1sqm footprint in the room. But seems excessive for us to put a 2.4x0.75x0.6 tank on a 3.6x0.75 sqm footprint.

I would be speaking to my PE soon, hopefully he could shed some light on this too

or any engineers around?

[vinz]

PE is PWhat Engineer? You building your own condo? :-p

[samhon]

PE = Professional Engineers

They are usually needed when you do renovation like hacking of walls etc to endorse on the safety aspect.

The PE just inform my project manager of my reno that the weight load is 150kg/square meter ....... he said that he doesnt have the actual figures on hand

i think i can kiss the dream goodbye

Condo managment said 509kg/sqm

PE said 150kg/sqm

LFS said as long as below height of 3 feet

so who to believe

but 150kg/sqm sound really absurd, i think all our fridge would fail the live load test on flooring, i think that going by this standard, me standing on the same spot in my house will case a dent in my flooring and probably the collapse after a few years