Need help in my glosso

**barmby** · 15th Sep 2010, 00:29

bokeholic, you are lucky today. hearing it from someone who actually did it.. stan, adrian and shadow.

I have very little experience in glosso and the result was a failure. It grows tall in my 5 feet tank. Thats when I realise my light sucks/under power/insufficient and etc. Actually my motive is to use glosso to try out whether my light (is it powerful?).. In the end - failure. 150W x 2 pendant MH is nothing for 5x2x2.

anyway, listen to them

PS: but 10 hours of lighting is too much for me to handle..

**StanChung** · 15th Sep 2010, 03:03

Colin/Bokeholic- you'll only get a lot of algae problems when there's a lot of debris trapped in the filter-whether it's from a recent trim or mulm. I notice a lot of GSA right after a trim when I've not scooped everything clean after two or three days. I'm not surprised as the plants 'bleed' after a trim and add that to rotting matter, it does get a little out of hand.

Don't underestimate the usefulness of an SAE in keeping hairy algae at bay.
As soon as I catch all of them out- the whole tank starts to fuzz a bit.

Bokeholic-since you are new, the best advice I can give you is to try. Failure is not the end. Getting algae is not a big deal.
It really isn't-you'll learn how to deal with it and be better off for it. Knowledge is power and there is more than one way to achieve your target. -My advice is just based on our observation so it could just be dumb luck or the designer soil.

**bokeholic** · 15th Sep 2010, 07:32

This is in fact my 2nd attempt on planted tank. My 1st attempt although not failed, the growth was very slow.
I have not given up. This time round I have more luck or maybe due to the designer's soil. Haha

I guess my new shoots of glosso are doing well at the moment because they are new and algae
has yet to knock on its door.

**barmby** · 15th Sep 2010, 09:33

Stan, I gonna bookmark this page for the future generation

**blue33** · 15th Sep 2010, 09:52

if the Hong Kong hobbyist can use T8 to grow healthy glosso short short i dont see why we need super highlight to get them creep low etc. why waste so much $ on so high light? just that some people only believe what they believe. just noted that glosso is a nutrient/co2 sucker and they origin from very cold country.

Noted: cold water provide rich co2.

**blue33** · 15th Sep 2010, 11:03

You have to understand how nature works, the type of plant where they grow. In nature there are abundant supply of CO2 as they grow mostly emmersed, those grow in submmersed also trying to grow out of the water in search of CO2. In nature plant prefer to grow emmersed than submmersed due to abundant supply of CO2 and at most time the plant grow at the side bank of the stream/river rather than submmersed. In limited supply of ferts they still grow well. If you come across recently those journal posted on the freezing cold water stream/river, plant flourish very well as cold water provide abundant of CO2 for the plant.

Some example of the recent journal: 1 , 2

Like what cliff Hui said in one of the forum i came across, observe the nature and how they survive. Alot of thing we have overly done which is not necessary at all.

**williamng** · 15th Sep 2010, 11:22

Hehe! Interesting information. Sorry, I dont know a lot of theory because I rarely read all these lighting, CO2, nutrients stuff

Glosso dont really need cold water. Anything 26degC is good enough.
http://www.tropica.com/plants/plantd....aspx?pid=045A

Just to share my experience with glosso:

1) I tried growing them on other soil other than ADA aquasoil aquazonia I or II, I never had any success until I use aquasoil. So in my opinion, substrate is very important for this plant.

If you don't believe, try using lapis sand

2) I didnt have much success till I add a fan to my tank. The reason not being water is not cold enough but rather water is too hot. Anything more than 28degC, it is difficult to keep plants growing well. Later one, I grew sick of using a fan and move on to a chiller and by maintaining my tank temperature at 26degC, my glosso is extremely healthy.

3) Lighting is extremely important. Why using T5, T8 are good enough? Because water depth is < 60cm. From what I know, lighting intensity drops more in water as compared to air. If your tank water depth is > 60cm, then I think T5 and T8 will struggle. Dont compare those instance where I hang my light at 30cm and my water depth is 30cm. This is not equivalent to water depth of 60cm.

It is true the hongkong aquarist uses T5, T8 and PL but their tank depth is 45cm to 50cm if I remember correctly.

4) CO2 is extremely important in water. As we have already said, we are growing plant in water.

5) Liquid fertilizer. This is the only thing I am unsure. If the substrate is so fertile until it provides a lot of nutrients, do we still need liquid fertilizer?

Sorry, I dont have data to support my claims, just some personal experience

As for the water freezing, I have to disagree because when water freeze, ice becomes it and I dont think plants can grow in ice. Probably Blue33 is refering to very very cold water.

**blue33** · 15th Sep 2010, 12:24

lol... in the end it is still cold water or cooler water? What said you? i'm growing at about 50cm depth and light hanging above 20cm, isnt it good enough depth? Maybe the Hong Kong people never show you the depth yet. lol. Spoken to Dave Chow also, and sometime ago the ADA Aquajournal specially mentioned on the cold water also and how important cold water is, they went to mountain and stream to check every water temperature. If is not important then why they waste their time doing that? ADA people so free meh?

That is a flowing stream. 9 degree not cold meh? Please read carefully. Sigh!!!!!!!!..... looks like still a long way to go man!

anyway i'll stop this.

**Shadow** · 15th Sep 2010, 13:04

T5/T8/T5HO/PL/CF all if I may, just a packaging name. All are still using same fluorescent technology. The important thing about light is the spectrum and the amount that reaches plant leaf. You can use T5 or T8 or T5HO but importantly how many tube that being used? 1 tube? 2 tube? or 7 tube like what Dave Chow used?

Tube brand is also important? Generic China tube probably have unknown spectrum, where as ADA/Dennerle/etc tube have spectrum tailor to the plant need. It may take only 36W for those specialize tube to have the same PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) as OSRAM tube for example.

Point is wattage is not the best way to compare but getting PAR meeter is expensive, so we close one eye or both on wattage

**blue33** · 15th Sep 2010, 13:16

i'm using 12k china brand, anything not above 12k all can grow plant, cos above 12k is blue for marine. the rest is just individual preference of colour only. is just commercial gimmicks.

**Aquanoob** · 15th Sep 2010, 15:00

Wow, really learn a lot from the buffet of discussions by the expert aquascapers in this thread regarding plants, light, temperature, subtrate, etc. Hope to see more of this type of knowledgeable and competitive discussions.

**StanChung** · 15th Sep 2010, 16:49

aha- interesting-First of all I'm not an expert-just someone with some experience.

I already said that there's more than one way to achieve your goal- healthy aquatic plants/desirable pattern of growth/algae free.

I didn't say cheap MIC T5's cannot grow plants. I said it's longevity is #$!.
So Adrian just misunderstood what I said and talk about a whole lot which I don't understand.

Anyway- there's a lot of things we don't measure and can't calculate exactly since the plants cannot talk to us. "WOI! not enough light lah!" or "Eh, can't you see I'm skinny? Feed me more NPK! Not so much till my leaf rot ok?"

Ok seriously-we have to keep everything in the tank happy.- fishes and all so it's a compromise and the figure for temperature is 24-27.5C unless you keep discus.

What William and Robert said are spot on.
To add to the CO2 hype that some *experts pontificate about, I seriously do see some correlation to their views but I've also experienced the opposite.
So to me the jury's out. In nature there's not CO2 system to diffuse how many bubbles per second and it still grows nice as shown in Amano's lovely Aquajournal adventure pics.
That is because plants don't just take CO2 like the way we supply it. They can use other forms of dissolved/liquid carbon.
In nature the water is flowing and the water is rich with new nutritious water that plants can grab as needed unlike our stagnant tanks with a large amount of hungry plants.

So stay focus on your goals and adapt as your tank changes in organic mass. One size cannot fit all.

Cheers and peace!

*Real experts with equipment that can measure PPM-not you and me who only guesstimate.

**blue33** · 15th Sep 2010, 18:12

I dont advocate on brand unlike others who strongly believe in that. Good to have and good to burn your pocket deep deep. It aint going to help the hobbyist and the people but getting them burn off and staying away from this hobby only.

Already explained my point only some dinky dont understand.

**StanChung** · 15th Sep 2010, 18:18

Uh I don't understand what you mean.

**vinz** · 15th Sep 2010, 19:09

Maybe I'm a little bit sensitive, but looks like something might flare up in here.

This a forum for discussion. There are many views and opinions, and in many cases, such as this, there is no clear right and wrong. We cannot impose our views on others. We can only share our experience, knowledge and opinions. If people don't accept, then just leave it be (unless they are going to do something which is going to cause serious harm/danger/cruelty to self, others, livestock or property.)

In some people's experience, the expensive stuff really work for them. For some, the expensive stuff does not make a difference.

I use cheap soil for my tanks, topped with cheap gravel. If asked, I would recommend that. But others may have tried that with no success, but achieved great success with branded products. So be it. I've posted my views, and I leave it to the reader to decide which option they wish to pursue.

That does not mean I shut up in the future and refuse to share. I will still continue to advocate my methods, and still let others advocate their methods. And let the readers decide. There will be those with deep pockets who will slurge on the branded stuff. There will be those who have financial constraints who may try the cheaper option first.

There are the Amanos, the Linda Waldstads and the Tom Barrs. All have achieved good success with their methods, albeit (in some cases) different kind of goals and successes.

At the end of the day, what is important is that:
a) Knowledge, experience and views are posted up for all to freely read and choose.
b) There is agreement to disagree, and live in peace.

**williamng** · 15th Sep 2010, 20:32

Originally Posted by blue33

I dont advocate on brand unlike others who strongly believe in that. Good to have and good to burn your pocket deep deep. It aint going to help the hobbyist and the people but getting them burn off and staying away from this hobby only.

Already explained my point only some dinky dont understand.

Peace. I think we already say sharing experience. Personally I quoted brands because I used them and I find them good. I fail before so I don't want others to repeat my failure.

I learn through the long way before I met Robert, stan and some others and made mistakes.

Lastly, what's dinky?

**StanChung** · 15th Sep 2010, 20:38

Oh just looked it up- Dinky-small, insignificant, Thesaurus says trivial, unimportant, negligible, of no account.
Wow- small word but powerful.

Who's the dinky?

Agree with what you said Vinz and William. Many roads lead to Rome.

**vinz** · 15th Sep 2010, 22:26

The water temperature thing. I've read that in colder water, plants also have lower metabolic rate, hence they are "easily" satisfied. In higher temps, they need more nutrients to sustain their accelerated metabolic and growth rates.

Many hobbyists have a much easier time controlling their tanks once they lower their water temperatures. Consider this analogy: it's much easier to control a slow car than a speeding car. I also suspect this is the reason why fewer hobbyists have successes in Singapore: i.e. the hotter climate.