Denizens of Nav's shrimp tank

[Rooster]

To be honest, I'm more surprised about the temp the cardinal is kept in rather than the pH - most cardinals do well at a higher temp (27 degrees celsius). Though most breeding is done at pH 7 I think - but I think surviving shouldn't be that big a problem right? Besides, your gH seems perfect for shrimps in general. Anyhow, what's the "theory" you were referring to - may I enquire?

[Navanod]

Haha, yes, I'm keeping this tropical shrimp in temperate waters.
According to some reports I read after I decided to research this shrimp, the native conditions are:

pH = 7.6-8+
GH = 2?
KH = 1?

But unlike other alkaline water fishes (eg, african), these shrimps are extremely fragile and sensitive to ammonia.
My theory was that high pH makes ammonia more toxic, as they remain in the toxic state NH3 that can back-diffuse through gills. In acidic waters, some ammonia pick up a free H+ ion to form ammonium NH4+ which is rendered effectively harmless as it cannot cross the gill anymore.
So rather than try to provide a high pH and end up killing these shrimps when there's a minor ammonia spike (many reported losing shrimps although they were kept in coral sand high pH tanks), why not try keeping them in very clean acidic tanks? I was worried about the GH more than anything else actually, since people who lost shrimps in coral sand tanks suspected the high GH was to blame. But since these are crustaceans, I don't understand how moderate GH could hurt them.

Now I'm guessing that their native conditions were not exactly ideal for them. I have a crazy theory that these are marine shrimps that got trapped inland when sulawesi's lakes were cut off from the sea. Over time, rain diluted the saltwater and they slowly evolved to tolerate fresh water, low GH and the high pH. Whether they need it though, is what I'm trying to test.

[v200]

Its $6 and you can find it at C328 or That Aquarium. Do some research first bro, its very hard to keep this shrimps if you don't have the right setup

I know. Learnt that the hard way. Was torn between crs and cardinal. Ph was 7. Temperature was 27-29.Tried both in the same tank. Was so upset when the 2 cardinal died.
Was pretty sad as i quite liked the cardinal shrimp. Might want to venture into them again. But need to give up crs. To really give them the environment they deserve.

[Dean]

Thats the interesting part.
If he's still around by end Oct, that'll be really interesting...

I'm really impress on how this cardinal shrimp can still survive in the tank with different native. Now that it's coming closer to end of October, is it still living?

Your tank is one of the reason why I got back my interest in shrimps. But my fire red still can't beat your painted fire red.

[Navanod]

I know. Learnt that the hard way. Was torn between crs and cardinal. Ph was 7. Temperature was 27-29.Tried both in the same tank. Was so upset when the 2 cardinal died.
Was pretty sad as i quite liked the cardinal shrimp. Might want to venture into them again. But need to give up crs. To really give them the environment they deserve.

Oh? May I know if you had also measured other water parameters?

I'm really impress on how this cardinal shrimp can still survive in the tank with different native. Now that it's coming closer to end of October, is it still living?

Your tank is one of the reason why I got back my interest in shrimps. But my fire red still can't beat your painted fire red.

Its 1st Nov...and I just saw the shrimp last night cleaning one of the rocks so its been in there for 3 months! Hahaha!
Oh? I'm flattered but I'm sure your shrimp poison was already deep. Looking at pictures of tanks in this forum was just the catalyst

I think there's some improvement in my F1 generation painted fire reds after the GH went up to 8-10. Previously I had been using this rotten API GH kit and had been keeping them at GH 5 only mistakenly. Perhaps you can try checking your GH?

Hmmm...I'm not doing this very scientifically. My lecturer will probably suffer a fit if she knew I was calling this an experiment and that I'm using only 1 sample!

[bettafantastic]

Good photography skills!!
2nd picture looks like the shrimps are out of water!!

[calvin18]

I love the last shot..solid white

[Navanod]

Thanks for the kind words. Still learning how to take better macro shots of the tank though...its really hard.

Some updates:

1. Decided to put in more sulawesi shrimps to see if they breed. But sadly, could only find 3 at C328 last night...not sure if the 4 I have now are all same sex or mixed...probably have to increase the population if I wanna have a decent chance of breeding

2. Found a golden/white CRS baby while changing water!! I don't have any golden shrimps so its probably from 2 CRS with recessive golden genes mating. I don't really like golden shrimps but I like the red eyes, haha!



For a sense of how tiny it is, look at the Big Mama PFR on the right


3. Found many tiny CRS hiding, I think they're starting to spawn en mass

4. Managed to find another painted fire red Mama from a friend! Now only left 1 last friend who have 2 "survivors" to psycho, heh heh heh *rubs palms*

5. Sadly, I think my stud PFR male died...didn't see him for days. Now have to hold contest to find the next Big Daddy

[blackBRUSHalgae]

wow love your setup and your achievement! Did you start your HC wet or dry? how about fert dosing? Does it affect your shrimps? I trying to start CRS in my planted tank too. Currently cherry are breeding in there. Just bought 10 tigers to test it out and later gonna try some A grades CRS. Hope your Sulawesi shrimps will breed too!!! keep us updated!!!

[Navanod]

wow love your setup and your achievement! Did you start your HC wet or dry? how about fert dosing? Does it affect your shrimps? I trying to start CRS in my planted tank too. Currently cherry are breeding in there. Just bought 10 tigers to test it out and later gonna try some A grades CRS. Hope your Sulawesi shrimps will breed too!!! keep us updated!!!

Thanks bro. Its really taking all my spare time to work on...with alot of help from wife. She found culling poorer colored fire red somewhat fun and now is expert at catching them!

I wanted to do dry start for the HC but found that due to the high slope, its quite tricky, so in the end, did planting and just flood.
Ferts I'm doing EI dosing with excel but carefully controlled to make sure the nitrate does not exceed 20ppm. Shrimps didn't seemed to care.

I hope so too...had been reading up on Sulawesi's lakes and I'm thinking that the pH is not the only parameter that's important. Its the high oxygen content, low nitrate/waste and low bioload as well.

[Wjustin]

Hi bro nice tank you have there and wow on your FR lol.
Erm i have kept both species cardinal and CRS together and cardinals survived for 3 months pregnent But no offspring=( I hope you can do what i didnt accomplished haha good luck!

[Navanod]

Hi bro nice tank you have there and wow on your FR lol.
Erm i have kept both species cardinal and CRS together and cardinals survived for 3 months pregnent But no offspring=( I hope you can do what i didnt accomplished haha good luck!

Thanks bro. I can't say the FR's are doing well as I simply cannot get them to produce offsprings as red as the original that were purchased. Now I know why painted fire reds were so rare and (relatively) expensive...
Oh? You had also attempted? Care to share the water parameters of that tank?

[Wjustin]

Thanks bro. I can't say the FR's are doing well as I simply cannot get them to produce offsprings as red as the original that were purchased. Now I know why painted fire reds were so rare and (relatively) expensive...
Oh? You had also attempted? Care to share the water parameters of that tank?

That was quite some time ago ph around 6.8 gh was 8 kh 2
Your FR will have some random offsprings(brown or off color) which you need to separate
From what i see normally the real red ones are my females ><

[Navanod]

That was quite some time ago ph around 6.8 gh was 8 kh 2
Your FR will have some random offsprings(brown or off color) which you need to separate
From what i see normally the real red ones are my females ><

That's pretty close to what I have bro...hmmm, did those cardinals in your tank die after 3 months?

Actually, the PFR's offsprings are considerably more stable than the FRs I had previously. There's no brown, transparent or very very off colored ones...only poor quality ones are those with an orange pinkish color or with minor "cracks" in the redness of their shells.
Its only if I leave these poorer ones to breed with each other that the really transparent or very very off colored ones starts showing up, so now have to cull very aggressively after learning my lesson.

There is 1 very red male in the tank (I just found him again inside the cull tank! Thank goodness he wasn't dead like I thought!) but yes, females are certainly redder which is the norm for Neocardina.
That's why its such a pain to cull when they're young...I had to be able to tell if it was male or female before I can assess if the color was good or bad!
A color that's considered very good for a male would be terrible in a female...and since good males are so precious, I must be sure that a suspected good colored male is actually a female before I can cull it.

I also have to keep peeping in the cull tank as I do find good males that were culled by accident, including my main male stud breeder!

[Wjustin]

That's pretty close to what I have bro...hmmm, did those cardinals in your tank die after 3 months?

Actually, the PFR's offsprings are considerably more stable than the FRs I had previously. There's no brown, transparent or very very off colored ones...only poor quality ones are those with an orange pinkish color or with minor "cracks" in the redness of their shells.
Its only if I leave these poorer ones to breed with each other that the really transparent or very very off colored ones starts showing up, so now have to cull very aggressively after learning my lesson.

There is 1 very red male in the tank (I just found him again inside the cull tank! Thank goodness he wasn't dead like I thought!) but yes, females are certainly redder which is the norm for Neocardina.
That's why its such a pain to cull when they're young...I had to be able to tell if it was male or female before I can assess if the color was good or bad!
A color that's considered very good for a male would be terrible in a female...and since good males are so precious, I must be sure that a suspected good colored male is actually a female before I can cull it.

I also have to keep peeping in the cull tank as I do find good males that were culled by accident, including my main male stud breeder!

Yeah my cardinals slowly said bye to me lol.
From what i believe if your source is from the sulawasi lake/river directly chances of them adapting is close to 0 otherwise bred in your own country then i believe there might be a chance to do so. For me mine was direct source.

Thats good news to my knowledge , super red males are infertile correct me if i am wrong =)

[Navanod]

Yeah my cardinals slowly said bye to me lol.
From what i believe if your source is from the sulawasi lake/river directly chances of them adapting is close to 0 otherwise bred in your own country then i believe there might be a chance to do so. For me mine was direct source.

Thats good news to my knowledge , super red males are infertile correct me if i am wrong =)

My source is C328...I heard they get their sulawesi from some local breeder in pasir ris?

I too read that super red males are possibly infertile according to the theory that the redness is related to the female shrimp hormones. So either the not so colorful young males had been having fun before legal age (I'm only culling those that are 1cm and above) or that colorful 2cm male is enjoying himself as the only large adult male in the tank for the last few months. The females are still getting berried even before all their previous eggs hatched. I find molted shells with a few eggs still attached very often!

[Wjustin]

My source is C328...I heard they get their sulawesi from some local breeder in pasir ris?

I too read that super red males are possibly infertile according to the theory that the redness is related to the female shrimp hormones. So either the not so colorful young males had been having fun before legal age (I'm only culling those that are 1cm and above) or that colorful 2cm male is enjoying himself as the only large adult male in the tank for the last few months. The females are still getting berried even before all their previous eggs hatched. I find molted shells with a few eggs still attached very often!

I think i know this person haha

haha booming offsprings are great there so in a whiles time i think you will need more tanks? XD

[Navanod]

I think i know this person haha

haha booming offsprings are great there so in a whiles time i think you will need more tanks? XD

Extra tank? Cannot lah, no time and not enough power plugs to make another for now. I'm happy with one.

Speaking of that male breeder, here's some shots I just took:

Obvious cracks under the body, but still a very good specimen compared to other males so far


Under flash, can see he's not very solid


Under good lightings, can see the head carapace is actually still very solid


Next to one of the Female


Comparing the shade of the redness vs the orange tinted shade of another


Comparing the 2 again, side by side

[Navanod]

Oh, and here a Mosura grade CRS baby!! Yipee~!!



Hope the colors solidify and grow

[jowy]

Oh, and here a Mosura grade CRS baby!! Yipee~!!



Hope the colors solidify and grow

Bro...
Very nice mosura baby =)