Little Phosphate Remover Disaster

[bttay]

I was trying on phosphate remover to treat algae problems. It is in a form of tiny white color chips which I am supposed to wash it and use it as filter medium. I used a net as filter bag (one that we use for attaching Riccia to stones and wood).

After a brief wash and inserted it into the filter, I was shock to see that some milky stuff flowed out of the bag and into the tank. The whole tank became milky. After a while, I saw that inner walls of the tank and my filter were covered with a thin layer of white chalk. I quickly removed the phosphate remover from the filter and changed 80% of the water and scratched the tank wall. To remove the chalkiness quickly, I also inserted a new active carbon into the filter. It took about 8 hours to clear the water and I lost a neon tetra. Some of the plants were covered with white powder too but luckily it was quite easy to remove.

I think I need a fine filter bag for the phosphate remover. Anybody had such experience before?

[naturetan]

How high is your phosphate? I would prefer you to remove PO4 with water change, rather than using chemical.

I doubt high PO4 will cause much algae issue. PO4 are important for plants. They help prevent algae! Removing it completely is like removing your plants but grow algae instead!

[bttay]

Thanks for your message.

I did not test for phosphate in my water.
Read that phosphate is the limiting nutrient to algae. So, just want to trying it out. This morning I tried to introduce the phosphate remover again after soaking it in water overnight. It seems ok now.

As you have said, plants need phosphate as well. I plan to remove the phosphate remover once the algae is under control.

Will monitor closely and keep you posted.

[nbk3]

what type of algae problem do you have in the first place ?

[bttay]

I have BGA, Red hairlike algae, Green hairlike algae. I have an "algae zoo" []

The worse thing is BGA, it covers gravel, glosso and dwarft hairgrass.

[nbk3]

get some Yamatoes , they will have a Feast i think []

[bttay]

Was thinking of that. Have been looking around but a few of the LFS either do not have or only supply in big quantity like 50 per bag.

[limsteel]

Hair Algae Yamato will eat... BGA nothing eats it! Manual remove as much BGA as possible, Change water, Black-out and air pump the tank. Some advice to add KNO3, It will kill it over a few days.

Some people will use Anti-Biotics instead of the above. As BGA is a cross-bred with Bacteria and Algae this method is efficient. BUT will do more harm if not monitor. Benficial Bacteria of the filter will also be affected, causing nitro-cycle to slow down or even stop.

There are other steps involves do a search...

[vinz]

Not that simple to control algae. You need to figure out what's out of balance and fix that. Different tanks have different "ambient" levels of nitrates, phosphates and other nutrients based on fish load/types, plant load/types, water change, type of fish food, feeding amount, etc.

My tank is high in nitrates and low in phosphates. So go figure out what's wrong in your tank first.

Copy and paste the help form here and fill it up. That'll give us a better odds at guessing what's wrong with your tank.

[Plantbrain]

If PO4, phosphates, are a limiting nutrient to algae, why not the plants also?

Would poorer growth/health be better somehow?

Is limiting plant growth your goal as well? Or is it to have nice plant growth?

Algae has far far less biomass and nutrient needs as the plants. So limiting the nutrients would harm which more?
Algae will react faster, but they need less nutrient. The rate of uptake relative to most planted tanks with algae vs plants is extremely low. Plants use far more nutrients if well supplied.

Let me put it another way, I have 1.0ppm of PO4. I have no algae and superb plant growth. I add KH2PO4 every 2-3 days.

Now if PO4 cuses algae, 1.0ppm of PO4 is clearly not limiting plant or algae growth, why don't I have algae?
If PO4 causes algae, where is mine?

This notion is wrong/incorrect and there's also research to corroborate my position. This is a myth.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[naturetan]

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On 8/2/2003 11:18:02 AM

I did not test for phosphate in my water.
Read that phosphate is the limiting nutrient to algae.
----------------

Several aquarists here have no problem with algae at high level. Tom Barr has claimed likewise. In fact, I dose higher amount to prevent green and spotted algae. Looking at the amount of algae you have, there's a high chance you lack PO4 and other macro nutrients instead.

When plants are healthy, algae will hardly spread. IMO, this is just like trying to make yourself well again if you're sick, to put it as an analogy. Our first level is our natural body defence system to fight disease. If we're unhealthy and malnutrition, such system will give way and we'll fall sick soon.

Then if you go and see doctor, they might prescribe antibiotics to take. This will kill whatever harmful and good bacteria inside our body, making you weaker. Yes, you recover but need extra effort to nurse back to health. If not, you'll fall sick again and the cycle repeats.

However, if you look at the long term solution for healing, it'll be better. Prevention is always better than cure. Understanding that an unhealthy lifestyle and malnutrition makes your body sick, you started to nurse body back to health with well-balanced nutritional diet and excercise. This boost our immune system and keeps our body disease free for long.

This is likewise for algae problem. Using chemical and antibiotics to kill algae(disease) works temporary. But the root cause of problem is still not solved yet. More algae will come back again, and your plants will get weaker at every kill. Healing your plants with nutritional food and keeping your tank balanced(healthy lifestyle), will keep algae(disease) away for long.

Hope this give you a larger picture of avoiding algae.

[nbk3]

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On 8/2/2003 1:53:22 PM

Was thinking of that. Have been looking around but a few of the LFS either do not have or only supply in big quantity like 50 per bag.
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NA sells em [] its near to Novena Mrt

[eric_thian]

Try Petmart at Serangoon North. Selling at $12 for 20 yamato. Petmart close every Monday.

[bttay]

Found an article on the net regarding phosphate and algae:
http://www.algone.com/phosphates.htm

It says that if you keep nitrate low or even 0, you will not have algae even when phosphate is high as algae needs nitrate to make use of phosphate. I think that explains why some have high phosphate and yet not having algae problems.

[bclee]

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On 8/4/2003 12:59:26 AM

Found an article on the net regarding phosphate and algae:
http://www.algone.com/phosphates.htm

It says that if you keep nitrate low or even 0, you will not have algae even when phosphate is high as algae needs nitrate to make use of phosphate. I think that explains why some have high phosphate and yet not having algae problems.
----------------

That is not right either. Plants need nitrates. I have had terrible BBA problem with zero nitrates. It cleared up only after addition of NO3.

BC

[bubbly]

If you live in the North, can try out Th*t F*sh Shop in Yishun. They sell yamatos at 5 for $3 (if I remember correctly).

[bttay]

Found another info worth noting. It is a posting regarding "NO3 and PO4 in Takashi Amano Aquaria"[:0]

http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plant.../msg00119.html

[Plantbrain]

As others mentioned, limiting NO3 is wrong as well.

It should be kept moderate to low but NEVER absent for more than 20-30hrs in a CO2 enriched aquarium.

Plants need more nutrients than algae to grow.

The focus should not be on algae, it should be on the plants. Take care of them, and then the algae is not a problem.

If the site is selling something be wary. Especially algae cure alls and snake oils. I've seen many over the years and have tried many. They don't grow plants so they are fundamentally flawed in application to a planted tank even if they did kill the algae. Algae is not the real problem, poor plant growth is. This is why I'll never suggest anyone to use them. Bleach etc as a dip/cleaner etc or H2O2 as spot killer, but that's about it. Blackouts/pruning/trimming does the rest.

A word about the web : it is frustrating for new folks. It's big and there are many opinions. Just because it's written, does not make it so. It's difficult for the neophyte to wade through all the info and decide on which info to try/believe.


Regards,
Tom Barr

[bttay]

Tom is right.

There seems to be little "authorized" info on the net that newbies like me can gain assess to. Even books that I read (those few that I can find in Singapore) have contradicting opinions that leave me with no choice but to experiment with various methods inorder to find out which one actually works. You see, if there is already an authorised, proof theory about algae control, it won't be so easy for the algaecite seller to bluff their way through.

I guess there are limited number of researchs on the topic too probably due to its "unseriousness" or that the market return is not worth investing more time and efforts into. Just wondering if there is any university conducting specialized degree in Aquarium Technology, Horticulture or related course and which is not just a sub-topic of aquaculture, ecology, biology, biochemistry, etc.

[squall99e]

Does anyone ever have 4ppm PO4 in your tank and have no algae problem?
I understand that 0.5 to 1 is the recommended range.