Help Needed - Test Kits

[curryfishhead]

Hi Bros

I had set up a 1 feet tank with Gex Soil (Red) for two months now. The shrimps (cherry & Sakura) seems to be doing ok for the first month and then recently every 3 days, one will die.

I had a fan over 24 hours and the temperature hovers around 26-28 Celsius. There is no water change as I top up using distilled water every 2-3 days.

To prevent my shrimp population from shrinking and hopefully rectify the situation, I am thinking of getting some test kit to test out the parameters as most of the forumers are doing.

Below are some of the parameters which I read from the forum which I need to test and try to achieve.

Ph ~ 6.5
Gh ~ 4-6
Kh ~ 1
NO2 ~0
NO3 ~0

Do I need to buy all the above test kits or just test out some of the parameters only? Any good brand of test kits to recommend?

Hoping to get some pointers here so that I can start buying the necessary test kits this satursday.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Navanod]

Hi bro,

pH is a must. Cherry shrimps are quite forgiving about pH. As long as its not too far from 7.

GH kit avoid API as the color is super hard to read. I'm using Sera, much much easier to use. I think we can get away with GH up to 8?
KH kit just get the cheapest but avoid paying extra for the API GH+KH kit since the GH kit is worthless. I disagree with having a KH of 1...4 may be a better value, but thats my personal opinion.

NO2, nothing to suggest.

NO3, I do not think its possible to hit zero unless you're doing some really heavy plant growing and water change or using some fancy nitrate reducing product. A more realistic value would be anything below 20ppm.
By the way, if you're trying to keep any plants other than mosses, having zero nitrate is not good for the plants.

You should also consider doing regular water change as simply topping up, especially when using a fan, will slowly increase the TDS, even when using distilled water. This is my personal opinion again. Other school of thought is that changing water is stressful to the shrimps and that using distilled water will prevent water hardness and is good enough. You'll know once you test your GH I guess.

Lastly, how long did you cycle the tank before adding the shrimps? Or is the tank 2 months old and the shrimps in there since day 1? If so, then you should also test for ammonia NH3/NH4+. Its most likely the toxic stuff killing the shrimps

[jowy]

Hi bro,

pH is a must. Cherry shrimps are quite forgiving about pH. As long as its not too far from 7.

GH kit avoid API as the color is super hard to read. I'm using Sera, much much easier to use. I think we can get away with GH up to 8?
KH kit just get the cheapest but avoid paying extra for the API GH+KH kit since the GH kit is worthless. I disagree with having a KH of 1...4 may be a better value, but thats my personal opinion.

NO2, nothing to suggest.

NO3, I do not think its possible to hit zero unless you're doing some really heavy plant growing and water change or using some fancy nitrate reducing product. A more realistic value would be anything below 20ppm.
By the way, if you're trying to keep any plants other than mosses, having zero nitrate is not good for the plants.

You should also consider doing regular water change as simply topping up, especially when using a fan, will slowly increase the TDS, even when using distilled water. This is my personal opinion again. Other school of thought is that changing water is stressful to the shrimps and that using distilled water will prevent water hardness and is good enough. You'll know once you test your GH I guess.

Lastly, how long did you cycle the tank before adding the shrimps? Or is the tank 2 months old and the shrimps in there since day 1? If so, then you should also test for ammonia NH3/NH4+. Its most likely the toxic stuff killing the shrimps

Hi bro,

I personally find that API test kit are more reliable..
Comparing with last time i use Tetra test kit..
Maybe cause of it been in LFS too long..
The test kit no longer as effective and accurate as what it use to be.
just my 2cents =)

[Navanod]

Hi bro,

I personally find that API test kit are more reliable..
Comparing with last time i use Tetra test kit..
Maybe cause of it been in LFS too long..
The test kit no longer as effective and accurate as what it use to be.
just my 2cents =)

Hi, I'm ok with most API test kits and I'm using them. However, the GH test kit...whats the word? Oh yes, sucks.
The thing is supposed to turn from orange to green when it reaches the end point number of drops. Sounds easy right? Orange and green, even a senior citizen can tell it apart right?
But in real life, the orange is a super pale yellowish orange that have to look straight down the tube (even the instructions says so) to be able to see it orange. So when it switches to green? Super pale yellowish green too. Those kinda not orange not brown not green not yellow kinda color. Most ended up dripping till it hit 10 or 15 before realizing that they've overshot. And overshooting does not turn it dark green but back towards a yellowish color that looks more orange the more I add. So that magical pale green is only there for that tiny single drop before being overpowered by the yellow

Tied to use under bright light, use white backgrounds and use a negative control of tap water to compare? Still no good, cannot tell! So yes, API GH kit sucks. If there's any API reps reading this, you know its true.

Google "API GH test kit" and you'll see on the first page, already 2 complaints.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums...d.php?t=156366
http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewt...bf4269212e0bcb

After using a Sera GH kit, I kicked myself for wasting so much time on the stupid API trying to make it work and worrying that my GH is really through the roof.
Sera kit turn from a dark brownish red, to a dark emerald green. No yellowish, no guessing and overshooting doesn't make it turn red again.

Ok, I've finished ranting. Really hate API GH kit.
Oh, and thanks bro for the warning on the Tetra kits, I always see very dusty ones so never dared to buy them.

[curryfishhead]

Hi Bros

Thanks for the help so far. Really appreciate your feedback.

Gotten some test kits today and below are the readings.

PH = 7.2
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 80 ppm
KH = 40 (ppm or mg/L) or 2.23 dGH
GH = 60 (ppm or mg/L) or 3.51 dGH
NH3/4 = 0

PH level is on the high side. Not sure how to lower it down? I already use Gex Soil (red) and using distilled water to top up....

NO2 seems to be ok. Maybe because I have quite a fair bit of plants inside the tank.

NO3 seems to be high. I had rooted plants inside with hairgrass and they are growing well. It is recommended to bring this down to 10 or less....

KH seems to be ok because I am using distilled water to top up.

GH is okay?

NH3/4 should be fine because it is zero reading....

Hope the experts here can provide some insight in solving the above problems...

Many thanks in advance for your help.....

[jowy]

Hi, I'm ok with most API test kits and I'm using them. However, the GH test kit...whats the word? Oh yes, sucks.
The thing is supposed to turn from orange to green when it reaches the end point number of drops. Sounds easy right? Orange and green, even a senior citizen can tell it apart right?
But in real life, the orange is a super pale yellowish orange that have to look straight down the tube (even the instructions says so) to be able to see it orange. So when it switches to green? Super pale yellowish green too. Those kinda not orange not brown not green not yellow kinda color. Most ended up dripping till it hit 10 or 15 before realizing that they've overshot. And overshooting does not turn it dark green but back towards a yellowish color that looks more orange the more I add. So that magical pale green is only there for that tiny single drop before being overpowered by the yellow

Tied to use under bright light, use white backgrounds and use a negative control of tap water to compare? Still no good, cannot tell! So yes, API GH kit sucks. If there's any API reps reading this, you know its true.

Google "API GH test kit" and you'll see on the first page, already 2 complaints.

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums...d.php?t=156366
http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewt...bf4269212e0bcb

After using a Sera GH kit, I kicked myself for wasting so much time on the stupid API trying to make it work and worrying that my GH is really through the roof.
Sera kit turn from a dark brownish red, to a dark emerald green. No yellowish, no guessing and overshooting doesn't make it turn red again.

Ok, I've finished ranting. Really hate API GH kit.
Oh, and thanks bro for the warning on the Tetra kits, I always see very dusty ones so never dared to buy them.

Hi Bro,

LOL.. maybe your API GH test kit is almost the same as my Tetra GH and KH test kit..
Which is display in LFS for too long.. and lost its effect..
So far i use both API GH and KH test kit..
They work find for me.. on the manual itself.. it stated that its better to use a white blackground to see the colour change as its hard to see.
=)

[curryfishhead]

Some updates....

Did a water change of about 30% this morning and managed to bring the NO3 to 60PPM, still very high. Intend to do another one tonight...not sure whether this should be done...I had so far top up with distilled water for the past 2 weeks without WC and maybe this caused the spike in NO3?

For the PH at 7.2, will it be necessary to bring it down (for Sakura, FR and Cherry)? I thought that using the Gex Soil (Red) will bring the PH down..???....

By the way, is the GH/KH reading ok?

thanks.

[Rooster]

I totally agree with the negative reviews about the API GH test kit. So hard to read.Wasted my money on the GH and KH kit. Had to get a sera GH kit which was way better.

In terms of your readings, I think everything's fine except for the nitrate (which you've realised anyway).

A good reading I believe is about 15- 20ppm. But I've read that people have allowed it to slip up to 50ppm without any loss of shrimps - but that's how far it should go. Anything more and shrimp loss is inevitable.

But I do have some questions though -

1. How how high can GH go before it's borderline dangerous for shrimps? Similarly, what is the minimum - so that there will be no molting issues? by the way - I've read on the API GH and KH kit instructions that 8-11 dGH is recommended for marine fish and inverts. Do they mean marine and freshwater inverts or marine fish and marine inverts? I have a feeling it's the former. Does that mean that my current reading of 11 dGH is good?
2. I use JBL Biotopol C which includes minerals for shrimps - i suspect it's calcium - does it affect GH readings? Was wondering because my readings are consistently quite high.

[alvinchan80]

Rooster bro... i did hit a GH of 21dGH before when i had overdose on my Mosura Mineral Plus... But took me a 9 days of water change in order to bring it down to 9-11dGH... but shrimps are still doing fine... after every water change, they will molt...

[Navanod]

Rooster bro... i did hit a GH of 21dGH before when i had overdose on my Mosura Mineral Plus... But took me a 9 days of water change in order to bring it down to 9-11dGH... but shrimps are still doing fine... after every water change, they will molt...

Bro, abit OT but did you notice more solid shells colors when your GH was super high?

[alvinchan80]

Bro, abit OT but did you notice more solid shells colors when your GH was super high?

actually YES!! i just noticed this couple of days that my CRS are losing their white and red... wondering why... is it really the GH? then i must whack mineral plus?? i started to add in Mineral Plus nowadays after water change, but still losing some solid colors...

oh ya bro Nav, i did something to my tank last night.... msg me, i explain.... lolz... (sorry for OT again)

[Navanod]

Intriguing...perhaps there may be some truth to this GH thing I hear from the LFS...I'm gonna try boosting GH to 10 and see if I get an improvement as well. Currently, some of the poorer colored CRS's white portions are obviously faded compared to the very good ones I hand picked personally from the shops. Wondering if they can be "saved" by increasing GH and feeding them good stuff

TS, sorry bout the OT. Hows the nitrate readings? Try to bring it down fast...60 is still risky.
And the pH can be brought down by putting peat in the filters...I think Sera sells it

[alvinchan80]

Intriguing...perhaps there may be some truth to this GH thing I hear from the LFS...I'm gonna try boosting GH to 10 and see if I get an improvement as well. Currently, some of the poorer colored CRS's white portions are obviously faded compared to the very good ones I hand picked personally from the shops. Wondering if they can be "saved" by increasing GH and feeding them good stuff

TS, sorry bout the OT. Hows the nitrate readings? Try to bring it down fast...60 is still risky.
And the pH can be brought down by putting peat in the filters...I think Sera sells it

Sorry for OT again.. but i am curious about this..
Seems that their colors are always at near fading shades early in the morning before the lights are on... (7-8am) but once the lights are on, some of their colors slowly regain their colors.. is it that when they 'sleeps' their colors fade?

[Navanod]

Sorry for OT again.. but i am curious about this..
Seems that their colors are always at near fading shades early in the morning before the lights are on... (7-8am) but once the lights are on, some of their colors slowly regain their colors.. is it that when they 'sleeps' their colors fade?

Yes, most fishes and shrimps becomes faded when the lights are off. In the wild, no point displacing colors when no one can see it right? haha
Thing is, this is also when the CRS with the solid colors really stand out because their white is still very solid in the dark (when I shine a weak light to check) while the rest fades into a translucent shade.
Think very OT now, lets take it offline bro.

[Rooster]

I think boosting to 8 -11 GH is good for inverts. However this is bad for live plants.
So people who are keeping shrimps in a community tank - with softwater fish and nice live plants - might not want the GH to be that high.
No issues for shrimp and moss only tank i guess.

By the way, my GH's gone up to 12 so I''ve installed an extra HOB with a little bag of water softener (those little pearl thingies) to bring down the GH. But I'm afraid it'll bring down my pH along with KH. Anyone knows anything about this? thanks.

[curryfishhead]

It seems that the water parameters are stable now.

However, one shrimp still died yesterday....

Don't know how....anyone can shed some light?

Thanks in advance.

[oiishi]

Maybe stress for the shrimp after increasing the GH from 3.51 to 12.
Btw, did you check the others parameters?

[Rooster]

YOu might want to review your gH level - 3.51 might not be an optimal level since calcium levels might be low - thus possibly resulting in molting death. I personally feel that 7-8 gH is a suitable enough level for plants, softwater fish and inverts in a community tank. But that's just me, some may disagree. Anyhow, shrimp deaths will happen anyway - old age, illness...etc. Besides, when you were doing all these water changes and maintaining the tank, maybe there was some stirring of substrate leading to a short ammonia spike too quick to be reflected by testing (depends on how frequent your ammonia checks are) - but yet fatal to shrimp. Too many possibilities I guess. If I am going to suggest anything, I'll suggest that you not to worry and simply monitor first to see if any more deaths occur within a short space of time.

[Argent]

Hi curry,

If your tank is heavily planted, do look around for some bugs which kill shrimps, e.g. Dragonfly/damselfly nymphs. I had the same issue over the past month where the shrimp population kept decreasing steadily, despite attempts at water change, etc. Yesterday I finally found the culprit hiding at my moss wall - a dragonfly nymph more than an inch long! So far no more deaths after getting rid of it.

[curryfishhead]

Hi Argent

Thanks for your note. Did a check but cannot find any bugs at this moment.

Things seem to be stabilize now....after change the water and bring the nitrate down to about 20ppm. I guess my problem started when I used only distilled water to top up without realising the nitrate built up with the assumption that my plants (quite a few and they are growing well) will pick up all the nitrate....

So far, no deaths for the past two days and still keeping my fingers crossed....