Research for Planted Tank.....

**blur one** · 7th Aug 2003, 10:54

Planning for a planted tank and am now doing research...appreciate any assistance that I can get....target set up will be in September of this year so taking the time to read up and learn from all the experts out there.

1) PH can be controlled by CO2....but how do I adjust my KH and keep it constant..... I can use Baking powder but do I have to add more in when I change water ?? Any other ways to increase KH ?

2) For a 2.5 ft tank depth...... will 8 x 36 Watt PL lights be sifficient ?
Not interested in MH as the heat output may be too high.

3) Planning to use christmas moss and mini riccia at the moment and still looking for other plants for the landscape. As the above two plants do not have "roots", do I have to put the base fertilizer under where they will be ?? For example if they are in the foreground, around a rock or log, do I have to put base fert there ??

4) Was looking at the ADA malayian soil....is this a fertilizer or can I just use this soil straight without putting gravel above it ??

5) I am planning a sump filter (I know Co2 loss will be high) but I want the filter capacity.....what should be the turnover rate be for water passing through the sump ?

6) I plan to have a tall pipe in the outflow box so that splashing will be minimised to reduce the CO2 loss and noise ...any other ideas ??

7) As time to planting is quite far away, was thinking of cultivating my mini riccia....in a smaller tank till then. Do I need to have CO2 in this tank ???

I wanted to have a few spots in the landscape bare (just gravel) in the front of the tank..... will this be a good idea or will there be a higher tendancy for algae to grow there ? (this is my greatest worry...algae)

9) How long will the base fert last ?? Do I need to tear the tank down after this or can I just add some fert. inserts into the soil ??

Sorry for the long list of questions but need to learn from you experts out there....

Thanks

**chua** · 7th Aug 2003, 11:32

1) To increase the KH, you have to put in baking soda and not baking powder.
Please be careful about it. You definitely have to add a bit more when
you change water in order for you to reach your desired KH. Another way
to increase KH is to add coral chips.

2) You have to calculate the volume of your tank in gallon to determine the
amount of light you need. Generally it requires 3w per gal. But it all
depends on the type of plants you are having. Low lighting plants will
require less while high lighting plant will require more.

3) Why do you want to make your life so difficult. What if you decide to
change your landscape. Then how? Just spread a layer of fertilizer across
your whole tank and that will settle the problem.

4) Not sure.

5) Why do you want the filter capacity for? For planted tank, the optimum
flow rate is about 3 times the total volume of your tank.

6) Just change your filter.

7) Do you think you can survive if you are only provided with water but no
food. Similarly for the plants, it need light, CO2 and nutrients for
survival and growth.

Algae is what everyone is afraid of. To stop it, you need to have a
excellent balances between your light, CO2 and nutrients. If unbalances,
algae will grow on anything such as walls of the tank, plants
and even the soil.

9) That has to depend on the amount and type of fertilizer you are using.
You can insert fertilizer sticks if you do not wish to tear down the
whole tank.

**BFG** · 7th Aug 2003, 11:36

Welcome 2 AQ Blur One.

What is the size of the tank that u aiming for, 4ft? I have a 2ft deep tank n for my height (I am 1.91m tall) I am having problem touching the base of the tank. I can't imagine how u would do with a 2.5ft deep tank. Pl might not be enuf for that depth I think.

I am also using ADA malayan soil. There's no need 2 cover it with gravel. BUT in a years time, this soil will turn into mud. So think about it. U can't keep cories because the constant digging into the soil will turn the water cloudy. Need to plan carefully what kind of fish you going to keep. But by using this soil, u can keep dwarf cichlid. Just right for their need.

For co2, use an external reactor. The water that enter the tank will be premix with co2 already. Get an external filter. Again, wat is the size of your tank?

Algae, can't be help. In a planted tank, algae will occur no matter how much u maintain the tank. You could use the algae cleaning crew to control the severity of the occurence.

Hope this helps!

Btw, I'm no expert.

**blur one** · 7th Aug 2003, 11:46

Planning for a 6 ft by 2.5 or 3 Ft width and 2.5 ft height.... subject to approval by home committee and HDB.

Tank is for an Arowana...with a clean up crew of Japonica Shrimps and the like.

Any recommmendations for low light level requiring plants ??

Thanks for the info so far.....

**BFG** · 7th Aug 2003, 11:55

6ftx3ft with a depth of 2.5ft! Are u living on the ground floor? No kidding?!?

**PeterGwee** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:02

Arowana planted tank.....
1)Shrimps are out for certain as they make good snacks for the aro......
2)Low light tank for arowana might not be so suitable as they produce lots of waste and only fast plant growing environment could cope with the waste produced.
3)Tank so deep is going to make maintenance task a PITA.

**blur one** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:05

----------------
On 8/7/2003 11:55:11 AM

6ftx3ft with a depth of 2.5ft! Are u living on the ground floor? No kidding?!?
----------------

Applying for permission.....so far back and forth on stand design to spread the load but they have not turned it down yet. So keeping fingers crossed

**bclee** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:06

----------------
On 8/7/2003 12:02:22 PM

...
2)Low light tank for arowana might not be so suitable as they produce lots of waste and only fast plant growing environment could cope with the waste produced.
...

----------------

errr... note that many aro keepers keep their aros in bare tank with no plants...

Low light plants should not be a problem. Have a good filtration.

BC

**PeterGwee** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:08

Nitrate....you do need to remove them through lots of water changes if the plants cannot keep up with the rate it is being produced.

**blur one** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:11

----------------
On 8/7/2003 12:02:22 PM

Arowana planted tank.....
1)Shrimps are out for certain as they make good snacks for the aro......
2)Low light tank for arowana might not be so suitable as they produce lots of waste and only fast plant growing environment could cope with the waste produced.
3)Tank so deep is going to make maintenance task a PITA.
----------------

Yes there will be losses of shrimps during snack time but understand that if the aro is brought up to eat frozen prawns, and the aro is bigger...more than 12 inches, and if fed regularly then loss will be less...also, the cleanup crew will be in the tank first and the aro only when the plants have grown so that hiding places can be found for them.

8 PL lights of 36 watts is quite strong is it not ?? If use MH lights, how many ?? two or three ??

Deep tank yes the maintenance will be a PITA..... but if you take away the height of the substate and gravel (About 6 inches) and the top of the tank (Water height to top of tank) then not so deep but to reach the bottom....difficult...Maybe will put on my scuba gear and do maintenance.....[

]

I know maintenance is difficult but this is a showpiece of the house so want it with a big viewing area....also, wife will be director when I sticking my head and hand into the tank to do maintenance.....something to take work off my mind....also looking for low maintainence plants....to help make things easier....

**blur one** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:15

----------------
On 8/7/2003 12:06:35 PM

----------------
On 8/7/2003 12:02:22 PM

...
2)Low light tank for arowana might not be so suitable as they produce lots of waste and only fast plant growing environment could cope with the waste produced.
...

----------------

errr... note that many aro keepers keep their aros in bare tank with no plants...

Low light plants should not be a problem. Have a good filtration.

BC
----------------

I know that but then again, looks boring...Like aro's and also want a planted tank so why not combine them. Was inspired by Pet Safari's tanks and Vinz...aro tank....maybe height of tank should be lowered.....hmmmm......very confused...

That is why asking for advise and information whilst I am planning. Dont want to start and encounter problems but willing to research then decide...then hopefully, problems will be less...

**PeterGwee** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:17

Oh, open concept should be out too as aro do jump when frightened.

**blur one** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:29

----------------
On 8/7/2003 12:17:06 PM

Oh, open concept should be out too as aro do jump when frightened.
----------------

Definately.....using light diffuser as if use glass on the top will be too hot ......trap the heat in.....so no good....

**vinz** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:40

----------------
On 8/7/2003 12:11:46 PM

Yes there will be losses of shrimps during snack time but understand that if the aro is brought up to eat frozen prawns, and the aro is bigger...more than 12 inches, and if fed regularly then loss will be less...also, the cleanup crew will be in the tank first and the aro only when the plants have grown so that hiding places can be found for them.
----------------

Very expensive snacks. At 11 inches, my aro, fed with frozen prawns, was still going after small malayan shrimps. 300 malayan shrimps dissappeared within 2 weeks. At about $1 per yamato shrimp... you want to buy 30 of them every week? There are other ways to control algae and waste food/etc. I have no shrimps in my aro planted tank... no big issues with algae.

BTW, Vican had yamatos in his planted tank before introducing his aro... all gone too.

Otos... not as agile as they look. My other concern is that the fin rays are very sharp. Choking is a worry.

----------------
8 PL lights of 36 watts is quite strong is it not ?? If use MH lights, how many ?? two or three ??
----------------

12x36 on a 6x2x2 (640litres) is only 2.5 watts if you go by tank volume. 8x36 on a large tank cannot make it. Plus PL cannot punch thru beyond 2ft. Even at 2ft, it's right at the limit and thats not taking into account that PL lights will dim over time. You want taller then 2ft tank, go for MH. Heat is not worse then PLs if you keep it at least 1 ft above the water surface.

At least 2 MH, 3 better. Tank bracing can block too... decide and then specify/discuss the bracing positions to the tank maker. If they are using black silicon, make sure they use clear silicon to secure the cross braces. Else you get a big blotch of black silicon blocking light.

----------------
Deep tank yes the maintenance will be a PITA..... but if you take away the height of the substate and gravel (About 6 inches) and the top of the tank (Water height to top of tank) then not so deep but to reach the bottom....difficult...Maybe will put on my scuba gear and do maintenance.....[

]

I know maintenance is difficult but this is a showpiece of the house so want it with a big viewing area....also, wife will be director when I sticking my head and hand into the tank to do maintenance.....something to take work off my mind....also looking for low maintainence plants....to help make things easier....
----------------

If your tank is both wide and deep, you will have trouble reaching the back of the tank. Imagine this, your armpit at the top of the front glass. Your hand trying to reach the back of the tank. Otherwise you have to bend over then tank... means you have to remove the lights first. If you have MH pendants, you have to turn them off else risk burning yourself. Opps, no more lights... cannot see? You need to consider this. I would suggest no taller then 2ft... at most add a few inches for substrate. Wide is better then tall. For the aro, 2ft is good enough height for swimming (even with plants) until he gets longer then 2 feet. But 2.5 or 3 feet wide gives him more swimming area... much preferred.

Maintainance... can your wife going to direct you all the time?

And its always better if you can see things yourself.

**hwchoy** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:43

if you haven't yet, you can have a word with guys like vinz who can give you practical tips. I do agree 2.5ft is rather too deep even for aro tank, and do not underestimate the width, a 3ft wide tank (given the same length) is 50% more capacity (and therefore weight!) vs a 2ft wide tank.

just to illustrate: a 6×2×2ft tank weighs roughly 650kg (just the content)
and a 6×3×2ft tank would weigh 970kg!

You can also check out the 9ft tank at Teo's plant farm, that one is 2½ft deep too, and ONLY 2½ft wide

**PeterGwee** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:48

Can you get the tank into the house in the first place? LOL..[

] I think the people carrying the tank is going to die of exhaustion.

**vinz** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:51

----------------
On 8/7/2003 12:29:30 PM

----------------
On 8/7/2003 12:17:06 PM

Oh, open concept should be out too as aro do jump when frightened.
----------------

Definately.....using light diffuser as if use glass on the top will be too hot ......trap the heat in.....so no good....
----------------

Light diffusor will diffuse your already low lights.

I also find that light diffusors are not as &quot;safe&quot; as ppl think. Most of them have sharp edges and some ppl's aros get cuts and lose scales from banging on them when they jump.

Half my tank is covered with glass, the other half with 2inch grid stainless steel wire mesh. The edges with the sharp points are covered with air pipes split in half. The bigger holes also allow me to use fans... light diffusors will get in the way unless the fans are placed directly on top which then blocks light.

**hwchoy** · 7th Aug 2003, 12:52

BTW how wide is the HDB door? I measured mine (HUDC) and is only 90cm. Perhaps can get it through the corridor windows i.e. if you have corridor windows, and they are sliding ones. [

]