Newbies

[cheefw]

Hi to all bros/sis here. I've have some questions regarding my newly setup tank. My questions are as follows:

1. Why there are no bubble coming out from my plants? Even I increase the c02?
2. My tap water had a high PH level of 8.8. How can I bring down the PH level so that my plants can survive?
3. I’m a newbie to this hobby, please let me have all your valued experiences and advises.

Many thanks

Regards

[CT]

What is the size of your tank? amt of lighting?

[chua]

You have to fill up the data sheet in order for us to help you.

[cheefw]

Thanks for your reply. I'm having a 4ft tanks and have currently 2x36watts PL lamp and 1 x 30watts (3ft) Flou.lamp. Have tried to increase the c02 to push down the PH level but make a great mistake by doing so, all my fishes are dead and the water are very cloudy when i reached home after work. Would needs as much help I can get from the experts here. Thanks
Regards

[hwchoy]

it is quite unlikely your tap water is so high in pH. water in Singapore should be in the vicinity of 7-7.5, so first suspect is your test kit. If you can get some pure water, perhaps battery water, and test it to see what the result is.

[bclee]

You have low light for a 4-ft.

If yours is a 4'x1.5'x1.5', your tank volume is about 65gal. If it is 4'x2'x2', your volume would be about 120gal.

The guide for lighting is 2wpg up to 3wpg (watts per gal). That means you need to have at least 130W of light.

You would not see bubbles at this lighting wattage, no matter how much CO2 you pump it.

pH 8+ is not uncommon for tap water. This is because CO2 has been expelled from the tap water. If your waterworks uses chloramine, it is likely that they will supply you with water of around pH 8. The typical pH range given by PUB is 7.0-9.0.

To use CO2, please go to the FAQ section for more information. Basically, you need to know how much CO2 you are adding by measuring pH & KH.

BC

[CT]

About your cloudy water, did you cycle your tank?

[cheefw]

The tap water PH values has been confirmed by PUB and its 8.4. I have changed abt 80% of my tank water and everything seems to be back to normal. Will go and get more lightings tomorrow, by the way the PL lamp that are selling at the electrical shop are they the same as those sold in the fish shop. I find that it is cheaper that I customised it myself. Once again thanks for all the help. Cheers.

Regards

[subxero]

Prehaps you can get those solution from LFS to lower PH.. If the fishes that you are going to keep is within a certain range of PH.

[PeterGwee]

Nope, do not use those pH adjusting stuff!!! Just USE CO2 ONLY!

[subxero]

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On 8/8/2003 11:57:21 PM

Nope, do not use those pH adjusting stuff!!! Just USE CO2 ONLY!
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cheefw mentioned before that the fishes died from too much CO2...[]

[PeterGwee]

Plants does not use pH adjusting stuff...they use CO2. He needs to get an idea of how to do it correctly before attempting to inject CO2. Getting the buffer level up to 3-4dkH should be enough and then injecting CO2 at a slow rate and up to the required level.

[theodore]

His problem is that he injected CO2 to lower pH (to see some pearling) and disregarded the fact that high CO2 levels over a sustained period of time can kill both fishes and shrimps. At 2W/Gal (or lower), he is not going to see pearling anytime soon.

Using those pH down chemicals will only screw up the pH-KH-CO2 relationship. You may want to share with us if you found a way to estimate the amount of CO2 after adding such chemicals to lower pH.

[cheefw]

I’m confused on the relationship between KH, PH & CO2. Am I right that if I can maintain the KH level between 4-6dKH and PH level within my fishes tolerance level (7-7.5) and have sufficient CO2 for my plants. Its does matters how I lower my tank PH level whether by means of PH down product found in the market or increase the CO2 level. Like I’ve said I screwed up during my previous attempt by lowering the PH level by increasing CO2. Please share on how u guys maintain your tanks on the above issue. Thanks.

[PeterGwee]

To make simple for you, just aim for a KH value you want preferably 3-4dkH or higher by adding KH up stuff or baking soda. Use a KH test kit to measure.

After getting the targetted KH level, say 3dkH, your pH level will rise as well as pH and KH are inter related. Do not be alarmed if you pH rise to 8+ upon adding KH up stuff or baking soda. After that, inject CO2 and make sure you only use CO2 and not pH down stuff to get to the targetted pH, say 6.4 for a CO2 concentration of 35ppm.

Eg. pH 6.4 and KH 3 using baking soda and CO2 only!!

[killua7]

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On 8/9/2003 10:53:30 AM

To make simple for you, just aim for a KH value you want preferably 3-4dkH or higher by adding KH up stuff or baking soda. Use a KH test kit to measure.

After getting the targetted KH level, say 3dkH, your pH level will rise as well as pH and KH are inter related. Do not be alarmed if you pH rise to 8+ upon adding KH up stuff or baking soda. After that, inject CO2 and make sure you only use CO2 and not pH down stuff to get to the targetted pH, say 6.4 for a CO2 concentration of 35ppm.

Eg. pH 6.4 and KH 3 using baking soda and CO2 only!!
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Peter,

I do not really understand. If the main aim is to lower the pH, won't increasing the kH mean you have to pump in more CO2 to lower the pH. As mentioned earlier, the fishes already died from too much CO2, so having higher kH would mean that dangerous level of CO2 would have to be pumped in to attain pHs of less than 7.

Another thing I notice about using pH-kH-CO2 relationship is that my cheapo Sera test kit only can measure pH in terms of 0.5, whereas a difference of 0.2pH can mean a lot of difference in CO2 level.

[PeterGwee]

killua7, the main aim is not to lower the pH but to inject CO2 and at the same time not to cause very wide pH swings which can occur if there is no buffer in the water. (You do not need much CO2 to lower pH! If you overdose the CO2, its your own fault..not mine... We usually recommend that you be around for the entire day when you are setting up the CO2.)

The pH test kit are not suitable for this purpose as the precision needed is quite high and only a pH test pen or monitor can be up to the task.

[cheefw]

Thanks Peter for all the advise you have given. If I increase the CO2 does that mean my O2 will drop, if so can I add a air pump to increase the 02 level in the tank for my fishes? Will this then causes the C02 to drop again?

Regards

[theodore]

O2 will not drop due to increase in CO2. In fact, assuming that you have enough lighting and nutrients, increased photosynthesis due to the extra CO2 will increase the amount of O2 in the water column. What do you think are those bubbles/pearls at the tip of riccia?

Vigorous aeration (using airpump) accelerate CO2 loss. We only use it for 2 reasons in a planted tank :
1. (Max output) To expel CO2 in the event of CO2 poisoning.
2. (Min output) To reduce protein film - Some forumers have done this with success, i.e. no protein film but sufficient CO2 level.

I strongly encourage you to read up the articles in Aquatic FAQ before proceeding any further.

[bttay]

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On 8/9/2003 7:23:47 PM

2. (Min output) To reduce protein film - Some forumers have done this with success, i.e. no protein film but sufficient CO2 level.

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Hi Theo2001, I think I have protein film on the water surface. My pH is 6.0 and KH is 4. So I think CO2 content is very high. Does that have something to do with the protein film? What is the cause hah?

Thanks.

Tay