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Thread: Sources for marine fishes & corals

  1. #1

    Sources for marine fishes & corals

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    I have always wanted to ask this. Where dose those marine fishes and corals that are sold in the fish shop comes from ?

    A fish farm that breeds them ? Even for corals ?
    I have seen places like QianHu fish farm and stuff, but mostly fresh water fishes. What about the marine kinds ?

    Pls enlighten me.
    Scuba SnOOpy

    -- If you wouldn''''t write it and sign it, don''''t say it.

  2. #2
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    Dear Scuba snoopy,

    while some of the fishes have successfully been farmed raised, most of the species are still wildly caught; but at designed areas so as ensure that the other areas are not heavily fishes. The same thing goes to corals.. however, there are other ppl who will fish and harvest illegally and using methods that will destroy the reef e.g. using cynide to stun the fish. or destroying the reef to catch the fishes...[]
    I hope i have answered your queries.
    Let us work together to preserve the world for our children to inherit by being responsible to our surroundings. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, bubbles and memories.

  3. #3
    I'm not absolutely sure about the corals or freshwater fish, but I can give you some insight into the tropical fish trade -

    It's an industry that thinks nothing of the balance of reef ecology or the long-term effects of removing fish from their reef for the sake of profit.

    A common way of catching the fish they need is thru cyanide. What they do is provide this for free to villagers in say the Philippines or Indonesia, who can use it to catch their daily food for sale and sustenance, and in return they pass on a few fish to the traders.

    Cyanide, in smaller doses, does not immediately kill the fish. It does render them slow, stupid, and easily caught by nets/hand. However it is a permanent poison that will within weeks/months eat away at the innards of the fish such that within a short period of landing in an aquarium, they are likely to die. Of course the owner will put this down to not having cared for it properly and thus go out and buy a new one, and hence the cycle continues.

    The main problem with cyanide is its effects on the environment - the heart of the reef, the coral polyps, have little hope of surviving even small doses of cyanide poisioning. Because of the means of releasing cyanide - basically you can't control where it lands - everything in the area will be affected. So in the long term, the corals die, the fish relying on them die, and the bigger fish die due to lack of food.

    Recently in the Philippines and Micronesia (mainly on Palau) there has been a successful movement to educate the locals on these threats. The reason for its success is because in the last 20 years or so the decline of fish populations has been so dramatic that the locals cannot help but notice their ravaged state. Also, with the rise of diving as a viable tourist industry often making the locals much more money than fishing or fish-catching, there is a widespread call locally to end such practices.

    But it just takes a few idiots to ruin the last couple years' work towards conservationism in those areas. And besides, the traders are merely casting their nets wider, figuratively and literally, into more untouched lands like Indonesia and PNG. So unless there is some global awakening as to what's happening to the reefs for the sake of some rich guy's aquariums, its not a trade that's likely to suffer any time soon, sadly.


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    On 2/15/2002 4:57:10 AM

    I have always wanted to ask this. Where dose those marine fishes and corals that are sold in the fish shop comes from ?

    A fish farm that breeds them ? Even for corals ?
    I have seen places like QianHu fish farm and stuff, but mostly fresh water fishes. What about the marine kinds ?

    Pls enlighten me.
    ----------------

  4. #4
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    i totally agree with u.. fishes caught in that manner usually dun last long and refuse to eat..
    Let us work together to preserve the world for our children to inherit by being responsible to our surroundings. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, bubbles and memories.

  5. #5
    But sadly, most saltwater fish are caught in that manner. The conservative guess is upwards of 80% of them.

    And on fish breeding - very few sea species have been successfully bred commercially. Those that have are only "bred" in parenthesis - in the sense that they aren't fertilised in captivity but rather, they catch them very young in the wild, which is more or less the same as catching them when they're older, because they're taken out of the ecological cycle. Some egs of species they've tried to fertilise in captivity but failed - all groupers, cod, halibut, tuna, herring (sorry I can't name more ornamental saltwater species). Even those that they catch when young never grow to the same size as they would in the wild, no matter how much they feed them.

    Until the day comes when they are legitimately, successfully bred in captivity, and they can prove that they are, I cannot say I condone the practice.

  6. #6
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    Well.. we will never really know the actual figures... but fishes do bred in captivity.. it is a matter of creating an environment conducive for them, i.e. creating a simliar environment for them...
    anyway, i try to help within my little means by not purchasing hard corals for my tank.
    Thanks for sharing your insights.
    Let us work together to preserve the world for our children to inherit by being responsible to our surroundings. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, bubbles and memories.

  7. #7
    Interesting.

    But how does the customer knows where these coral or marine fishes are illegally caught. Are there any certificates or something to show how it was harvested, like the Arowana's tag.

    From the other posting, I doubt that there are any marine life that are farm bred like freshwater fishes. Perhaps that was why I couldn't find any here in the Jln Tengah area.

    Dunno about the poison destroying the innards of the fishes, even the thoughts makes me shivers.

    Are those marine fish hobbyist aware of this problem and doing anything about this ? [:0]

    while some of the fishes have successfully been farmed raised, most of the species are still wildly caught; but at designed areas so as ensure that the other areas are not heavily fishes. The same thing goes to corals.. however, there are other ppl who will fish and harvest illegally and using methods that will destroy the reef e.g. using cynide to stun the fish. or destroying the reef to catch the fishes...[]
    [:0]
    Scuba SnOOpy

    -- If you wouldn''''t write it and sign it, don''''t say it.

  8. #8
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    we never know..[]
    Let us work together to preserve the world for our children to inherit by being responsible to our surroundings. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, bubbles and memories.

  9. #9
    The problem is, it's nearly impossible to recreate a conducive environment. Again, I apologise for not having a typical ornamental fish as an example, but take for example the grouper - it wasn't until recently that they found that their migratory routes are very fixed and hardwired into the fish brain, and they do not stay at their resident reef to breed. The same applies for lionfish, soldierfish, surgeonfish, etc. When the route to their specified breeding ground is blocked, or the site is destroyed, they simply do not breed for that year.

    And I'm sure you've heard of coral bloom - that time once a month when the reef is awash with eggs of every form, coral and fish alike. How can they recreate this?

    There are some which can successfully breed, as you say. (the hornier species? ) But they're really in the minority. Snoopy is right, if only there was some absolute way of ascertaining if they were caught in the wild. That would definitely give me - and you, since you're commendably displaying environmental awareness - some peace of mind.

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    On 2/15/2002 12:02:38 PM

    Well.. we will never really know the actual figures... but fishes do bred in captivity.. it is a matter of creating an environment conducive for them, i.e. creating a simliar environment for them...
    anyway, i try to help within my little means by not purchasing hard corals for my tank.
    Thanks for sharing your insights.
    ----------------

  10. #10
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    i agree with u...[] point noted.. thanks guys (or gals) for highlighting this issue.. i guess it has been on most ppl mind.. [] i guess most ppl does have a better insight now... anyway, my banded goby gave birth to some babies.. i bought 2 but now have abt 5 of them inside.. i just let nature take it own course... perhaps they are horny.. hahaha
    Let us work together to preserve the world for our children to inherit by being responsible to our surroundings. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, bubbles and memories.

  11. #11
    Cool... with luck, more information about the breeding habits of such fish will come to light.

    So what does it take to make the environment conducive for reproduction? Turn on the mood lighting... pump up the romantic music, maybe some Marvin Gaye or Barry White... get the gobies in the mood for love

  12. #12
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    i show them porn.. hahaha... fish porn from documentaries.. hahaha.. then tell them.. get the drift?? now go forth and multiply.. hahaha
    Let us work together to preserve the world for our children to inherit by being responsible to our surroundings. Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints, bubbles and memories.

  13. #13
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    19 yrs in the diving industry and dived places like Palau, Sipadan, Mabul, Indonesia, Thailand, Burma, West Malaysia, Philipines, PNG and etc . I've witnessed what damages MAN ! had done to this countries unique surrounding coral reef ! believe me it's very alarming !. I seriously hope ppl are more properly educated to be more environment friendly ! well ! guess each and everyone of us have a small part to play ! Cheers man !

    Akoh
    Safe Diving !
    Safe Diving !
    Seeking for the Ultimate Diving Adventure !
    - Sipadan, Similan Islands, Burma Banks, Palau, PNG, Raja Empat ( planning for June 08 )

  14. #14
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    On 2/16/2002 1:38:25 AM

    19 yrs in the diving industry
    ----------------
    I was just wondering, but how do you reconcile your love of diving and sealife with your hobby of keeping such fish in your home? (I'm assuming you do actually rear them, pardon me if I'm wrong)

    I mean, knowing what man has done and will do to get the fish, I personally would not dream of contributing to this industry. Especially as a diver myself, I know that fish don't belong in any aquarium except for the one God made for them.

  15. #15
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    divedivedive ! You're wrong ! I don't keep them !, I'm 100% into planted tank and fresh-water fishes that breed in capitivity !.

    Akoh
    Safe Diving !
    Safe Diving !
    Seeking for the Ultimate Diving Adventure !
    - Sipadan, Similan Islands, Burma Banks, Palau, PNG, Raja Empat ( planning for June 08 )

  16. #16
    akoh - cool. Practice what you preach, especially when what you're preaching is as urgent a message as conservationism.

    But what if I throw the question out to anyone else out there reading that owns a marine tank? All of you obviously love fish, so how do you reconcile your desire to own some in an aquarium with the knowledge that chances are, they're wild-caught, and have been taken out of the ecological balance?

  17. #17
    Akoh.

    I see that the past few discussion points toward an agreement that the marine fish hobbist could be purchasing illegally caught fishes and corals.

    The general rule that most will apply is that if it is on sale, therefore it is not against anything. Just pay. Clearly marine fish tank owners are ignorant or ignoring this issue, after all what damage is one tank of a few fishes and hard corals to the world's ocean which is 70% of the Earth's surface.

    As moderater and perhaps the main committe for this forum/website, is AquaticQuotient doing anything on highlighting this issue and to raise the awareness to it;s membership and possibly to the public ?


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    On 2/16/2002 1:38:25 AM

    19 yrs in the diving industry and dived places like Palau, Sipadan, Mabul, Indonesia, Thailand, Burma, West Malaysia, Philipines, PNG and etc . I've witnessed what damages MAN ! had done to this countries unique surrounding coral reef ! believe me it's very alarming !. I seriously hope ppl are more properly educated to be more environment friendly ! well ! guess each and everyone of us have a small part to play ! Cheers man !

    Akoh
    Safe Diving !
    ----------------
    Scuba SnOOpy

    -- If you wouldn''''t write it and sign it, don''''t say it.

  18. #18
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    [quote]
    ----------------
    On 2/18/2002 7:53:04 AM

    fish hobbist could be purchasing illegally caught fishes and corals.

    As moderater and perhaps the main committe for this forum/website, is AquaticQuotient doing anything on highlighting this issue and to raise the awareness to it;s membership and possibly to the public ?


    [quote]
    ----------------
    Scuba SnOOpy ! if it is illegal I'm sure " somebodies " in SG or elsewhere will put a stop to this trade. The concern here is the methods " they " used to harvest these Ornamental or " Consumption " fishes ( Cyanide Fishing, Dynamite fishing, drift net fishing etc ) that causes damages to the Coral reefs ! and Eco System !. I'll probably take the whole day If I go into seahorses !, sharks ! Napoleon Wrasses etc.
    My " general rule " is low or no demand low or no supply !, high demand high supply !, high demand low supply $ goes up ! man ! what more can I say ! .
    As regards to " raise the awareness " I'm sure " We " ( not just AQ Mods. ! ) everybodies ! ( members of AQ ! ) have a role or part to play ! - Eco System friendly !. Cheers !

    Akoh
    Safe Diving !
    Safe Diving !
    Seeking for the Ultimate Diving Adventure !
    - Sipadan, Similan Islands, Burma Banks, Palau, PNG, Raja Empat ( planning for June 08 )

  19. #19
    I think that the marine fish tank hobby is not illegal here. However, it is said with the attitude that so as long as it is on sale here, therefore it is legal. But the method used to obtained those fishes and corals are highly damaging, esp when one cannot ascertain as to how the items are obtained. That is why I asked if there are certs or something to show that it isn't.

    We are touching on the topic of the destruction caused due to the process. While some would argue that having the marine tanks around, will enable those non-scuba divers to enjoy marine life. But there is public places like the Underwater World and that tank at Wisma.

    Saw the documentary on National Geographic Channel last night on the destruction of corals and marine life. The fisherman are catching these for aquarium, dunn think anyone will eat a clown fish. It takes about a few decades to regrow the corals & to bring back these marine life ! That is in a small part of Indonesia. Very near to Singapore, where money is no objective, so as long the things looks good. Yeah. So sad to see this happen.

    As i see it, this aspect of the aquarium hobby is no different from someone coming into your home, take whatever they want and then selling it to someone. Just that the 1st few stages are "unseen" & "unheard", after all the local authorities did not intervene, therefore the source is unquestioned. Afterall Luohan was at one time a longkang fish that sells for a few dollars, now it is on par with arrowana and discus.

    For there is no satisfactory answer provided for the initial threat, "how are they bred" ? I dunn think so there is much success of such breeding in captivity, unlike freshwater fishes. There is another though given to me that mother nature will not completely let us deprive it of it's natural assets. Do take and pay lah. Dunn borther lah. Yeah.

    Oh, yes, it is everyone's task to be aware, to pass on this knowledge of ecosystem and that there is untold & undocumented destruction of marine life around. In addition to pollutions and el ninos..... That is if the public cares about it and those marine fish hobbist borthered about it. Afterall, the authorities here did not take action or issue a decree, so it is ok. Just pay, like the COE.

    Have we noticed that the exchanges are confined to the few of us, DiveDiveDive, Kelstorm and myself. What about the remainder of the "marine" forum members ? Have we touched a raw nerve here that they chose of ignore.

    Anyway,I have made my points here and have a lively discussion with the other 2 forum members. Since there is no inputs from other members, i think it will be just the point from the 3 of us that is like replaying broken records. So.....

    Cheers



    ----------------
    Scuba SnOOpy ! if it is illegal I'm sure " somebodies " in SG or elsewhere will put a stop to this trade. The concern here is the methods " they " used to harvest these Ornamental or " Consumption " fishes ( Cyanide Fishing, Dynamite fishing, drift net fishing etc ) that causes damages to the Coral reefs ! and Eco System !. I'll probably take the whole day If I go into seahorses !, sharks ! Napoleon Wrasses etc.
    My " general rule " is low or no demand low or no supply !, high demand high supply !, high demand low supply $ goes up ! man ! what more can I say ! .
    As regards to " raise the awareness " I'm sure " We " ( not just AQ Mods. ! ) everybodies ! ( members of AQ ! ) have a role or part to play ! - Eco System friendly !. Cheers !

    Akoh
    Safe Diving !



    ----------------
    Scuba SnOOpy

    -- If you wouldn''''t write it and sign it, don''''t say it.

  20. #20
    Yes indeed you have Scuba and Divex3 =)

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