Gan's = Am i mistaken?

[xxdivinityxx]

Went to Gan's over the weekend,

Purchased:

50 Cardinals.
10 Ottos.
5 SAE.

Issue: The Cardinals that he sold me were very tiny, the size of neons, but he said that those were new stocks so they were smaller. That i believe. But so far 2 of my friends who have come over to view tell me that they might be Neons. 1 guy said that the diff in cardinals is that the blue streak goes all the way to the end of the tail, unlike the ones i have. Nevermind that. My friends said that he shouldn't have charged me $30 as they were so small, as those were adult prices.. That's no issue with me, as long as they are cardinals. Can anyone verify this?

Issue 2: My hobbyist friends tell me that what he sold me was a flying fox! Not SAE!! How do we tell the diff? He says that the black line in SAE travels all the way to the end of the tail whereas mine stops short of the tail.

Can anyone help?

Gan, Im sorry if i've offended you with this thread, I must say i'm not boycotting your farm, In fact i found the trip there very worth my while, very nice guy he is, chatty too!

[Simon]

a picture tells a thousand words.

[budak]

Actually I don't ever recall seeing Neons at Gan's. Green neons yes, but not the Neon itself.

Both Neons and Cardinals have a blue lateral strip that goes all the way to the tail, but in the Neon, the red colour on the lower half of the body only starts from the centre, while it covers the entire lower half of the cardinal.

Gan stocks both SAEs and Flying Foxes i think. Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart in a holding tank cos their colours do not show up well. ID-ing the real SAE is a skill that comes with experience (even many LFS can't do it), so I suggest you read this article click to learn how to see the differences for yourself.

Do ask your friends though, if they can find a better bargain than Gan's anywhere in Singapore. Talk is cheap, but ignorance is costly.

[xxdivinityxx]

how do i attach a pic?

[xxdivinityxx]

Hi budak! Thanks for the link, i think i've def. not gotten a SAE. Chill dude, me and my friends are all here to learn, no one said anything about finding elsewhere cheaper, so just chill aight?

[stressed]

Hi,

Like what Forumer BUDAK said, Cardinals have the bottom RED stripe extending over the entire bottom.

While I am not from GAN, I would say even if he "intends" to sell you Neon's at the prices of Cardinal's, we as they buyer have the right to say we want to or not want to buy from them right? They dictate the price and supply, we dictate the demand. No offence. All I am trying to say is if you have any doubts you should not have bought first and go out and verify.

But based on my few purchases from GAN, doubt you would have bought Neon's instead maybe you got Green's, Green's do not have the RED stripe at the base though. Definitely @ 60Cents each, I think the price is fair, dont think Tiong Bahru offers this price though.

However, GAN claims his Cardinals and/or Greens are from the Wild, heehee....this I am uncertain.

[Daz]

I was there over the weekend, share with my friend 50 Green neon.

I did look at the cardinal and does look like 70% of it is cardinal while the rest like neon. due to the small size of the cardinal and low lighting there, i cannot make a judgement as my intention to go there is to buy Green Neon and Green neon only.

My friend actually wanted to get the cardinal but the guy (not sure if it is Gan himself) told him to get green neon instead as green is not always available and the green he have is already almost adult size (yes, green neon are smaller then cardinal when reach adulthood). So friend got the green also.

Think can make judgement only when the fish are bigger, they are now so small that i could hardly see clearly. 1 month later you will know better if they are truely cardinal.

Me not working at Gan or defending him, just my view on this.

[eGGS]

My 50 cardinals from Gan still doing well.

[illumbomb]

----------------
On 9/17/2003 11:10:17 PM

a picture tells a thousand words.
----------------

Go to google search, click images,
1) search for "neon tetra" then "cardinal tetra",
2) search for "sae algae" then "epalzeorhynchus kalopterus",
should provide you with sufficient pictures to help you identify your fishes.

[hwchoy]

Gan doesn't have neon because neon tetra (Paracheirodon innesi) is captive bred in Malaysia (and elsewhere), whereas the other two Paracheirodon species: the cardinal tetra (Paracheirodon axlerodi) and the green neon tetra (Paracheirodon simulans), are wild caught from the amazon. If you actually got neon mixed in with your cardinal that is VERY GOOD which means these should be WILD neon tetra. But this is unlikely as the cardinal and green neon comes from the middle-section of the Río Amazonas/Río Negro whereas the neon comes form the upper reaches of the Río Amazonas in Peru. Gan brings in the cardinal and green neon direct from South America so there should be no opportunity for farm-bred neons to be mixed in with them.

Nevertheless a pic is worth a thousand words:

Paracheirodon axelrodi Schultz 1956 - the Cardinal Tetra - notice the red extends throughout the lower body.




Paracheirodon innesi Myers 1936 - the Neon Tetra - the abdomen is silvery and not red.




Paracheirodon simulans Géry 1963 - the Green Neon Tetra - a very subtle and beautiful shoaling fish for the large planted tank (they don't shoal so well in small tanks).

[ah tong]

choy,

Thanks for the clear and simple explanation man!
Great pic too!

[xxdivinityxx]

Thanks again for the clarification!!!

I stand corrected on the cardinals! I deeply apologise for any panic caused..

However i'm still uncertain about the SAEs..

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html

Mine seem like the false SAEs, as their fins are slightly coloured and the black strip doesn't run all the way through..

[chua]

It is not too difficult to tell the different between SAE and false SAE.

There are two ways.
1) The first way is that for SAE the black strip is extended right into the tail. While false SAE stop right before the tail.

2) The second way is that for SAE the fin and tail are colourless. While false SAE has a slight yellowish in colour that becomes more obvious as they grow bigger.

Hope this help.

[xxdivinityxx]

Precisely!! My So called SAEs do not have the black strip extended into the tail and the fins have a yellowish patch!

Wonder if gan can verify this???

[vinz]

This is a much better article for ID-ing SAE.

[hwchoy]

Gan has been known to sell false-SAE/flying-fox as SAE (I don't think it is intentional). To confirm an SAE ID you have to check the stripe (extends through the tail) AND fins are colourless AND black stripe is jagged without a yellow/gold stripe on top. The link provided by vinz is the best way to tell. Note the conditions are mandatory not optional.

Once you're familiar with SAE you can recognise them from their body and head shape and the scale arrangement over the head. For very young SAE I ID them by looking at the top of their heads.

[Georgeer]

Thank goodness you had confirmed you bought Cardinal and not neon, else the price difference would really make you jump.

SAE or flying fox, not really much of a difference once the SAE starts to take fish food. My 2 REAL SAE are quite useless on the algae control in my tank nowadays but they are quite a nice fish to look at especially their shiny golden scales.

[hwchoy]

depends on your luck too, I have a big SAE (3-4 inch) that is still diving into the grass for algae.

[vinz]

By the way, the body shape, head, scale arrangement of the so-called "Indonesian Flying Fox" is very similar... but the colouration are very different.

The IFF is darker in general and has coloured fins. The gold stripe is very obvious.

The SAE seldom show a gold stripe, but those that do... it's almost invisible.

[hwchoy]

really? never seen an SAE with a gold stripe! perhaps it is not a stripe but the sheen shading as the back slopes away from you.