Discus in planted tank

[hobbit6003]

Hi all,

After having an arowana in my 4 fter planted tank for more than a year, he finally outgrew the tank and I had to put him up somewhere else before getting a 6 fter for him.

Now, I'm thinking of having discus in my redone 4fter. Wondering if anyone of you who would like to share your experiences?

Am thinking hard whether to do the plunge or not, as I'm concern with the possibly high nitrogenous waste and phosphate that they can generate, which may mean more frequent waterchanges and maintenance, or risk raising an algae farm.

I intend to keep the fish load moderate, probably getting about 4 young adults (5-6 inchers), in addition to the 40 yamatos, 5 SAEs and 5 ottos that I already have.

Your views pls.

Cheers,

Kenny

[Simon]

Kenny,

here are some observation when discus is concerned, they like clean water (so you have to do water change frequently, once a week at least), discus prefers dim lights (limit your choice of plants, I use echinodorus) They are very sensitive to movement and shadows behind them and dash upon seeing them. (you got to herd them to a corner before any trimming/maintenace is done ). Provide your discus with big leafy plants for cover and for shade, these plants also act as cushion for them, if they decides to make a dash.. sometimes they do injuried themselves dashing around initally, over time they will get used to your routine and family.I wouldnt worry that much about feeding them, water change will reduce whatever No3, NH you might have. try feeding them with bloodworms if possible. I started with beefheart and gradually changed to frozen bloodworm and flakes

[hobbit6003]

HI Simon,

Thanks for your reply.

At the present moment, my tank is relatively high light (8 X36W), and the aquascape is such that I've got tall stem plants taking 1/3 of the tank and 1 end, and tenellus running through the rest. Haha, tenellus is the only echi I have right now. I don't think I'd want to change my scape very much now, and certainly not the lighting.

However, I think the tall stem plants should provide them with some refuge should the need arises. But I guess I'd have to trim these plants rather frequently. It's been only 2 weeks old and I had to trim quite a bit, as the plants are already hitting the water surfaces.

As for food, if I were to keep discus, I don't think I'd feed them as frequently as most discus keepers, probably only with processed food and perhaps forzen bloodworm once a week. That is why I'm going for adult ones. My primary intention of keeping them is for a decorative purposes, not for breeding (though my discus friends are sill suspicious of my intention )

Another concern of mine would be the water temperature, which sometimes goes as low as 26 degrees celcius.

Hey, thanks for sharing!

Cheers,

Kenny

[timebomb]

Kenny,

It's going to be tough. Discus don't do well in planted tanks for a few reasons, foremost of which, is the feeding regime. True blue Discus lovers feed heavily with beef heart and their fish grow big, strong and thick. In planted tanks, the Discus get only meagre food and they become very skinny. Some people may argue that their Discus are doing very well in their planted tanks but serious Discus hobbyists laugh when they see the skinny fish.

As for using plants to provide safe refuge, I've always believe this isn't a good idea. In bare tanks, the fish has no place to hide so they don't. In planted tanks, there are many hiding places so they end up hiding all the time.

I used to keep and breed Discus in the old days and the best advice I got was "Never tiptoe around your Discus".

2 other pieces of advice that I can offer you -

No 1 - Discus have safety in numbers so keep more of them.
No 2 - Discus need lots of swimming space so don't crowd your tank.

And by the way, why haven't you sign my guest book yet, you joker!!! The website address is right below this post.

Loh K L

[Simon]

TB, then they have not seen my tefe green[] he is the first to feed, chasing everyone away

Kenny, temperature will be a concern, but 26degree is quite fine.. another tip, getting them used to your hands in the tank.. dipped your hands on the surface before extending to do trimmings, make sure they can see your hands []

tip 2: avoid running around the tank, they are one of the nervous fishes I have kept, beside Altums

since you getting adult discus, please get one that feed on tetrabits... getting them to convert from beefheart to other food is a long process

[hobbit6003]

Hi Kwek Leong,

Sorry lah, will go and sign up your guestbook later!

Yeah, I'm concerned whether the discus would have enough swiming space. As for the aquascape layout, I had this in mind and thus they have 2/3 of the 4fter to roam, provided that they're not intimidated by the bright lights!

Another concern, which I think you've rightly pointed out, is to feed them enough in terms of amt and quality, and not having excessive waste production (N and P), which may otherwise compromise the health of the plants. That is why I thought that if I am to get discus, I'd only get a quartet of the young adults, and probably not add to many dither fishes in there. With 4 young adults, I think that'll be just about there in terms of bioload.

Simon,

Talking about discus feeding on tetrabits, haha, that's exactly what I want to feed as staple. My discus LFS owning friend, weans his young adults using tetra bits too, though he'd still use beefheart to make sure that they grow well.

I've seen some of my friend's planted tank with nice plants but emaciating discus. So I wonder if discus does go along fine with a planted tank or not.

I think ultimately is the balance of the fishload and the water volume. To me, an ideal tank for a sizeable group of discus would be a 6 fter. This is exactly the reason why I shipped my aro out of the tank. At 18 inches, he is eating too much, and the work to maintain him and the plants in this 430L tank just proves too much!

cheers,

Kenny

[jon]

hi

i have a discus planted now, discus r doing ok. just some point to rem, like the rest have said:

- try to keep tall/long plants. these will provide lots of needed shade for your discus. IMO if your discus have enough places they know they can hide they'll swim out in the open more often.

maybe u can consider amazon swords or ozelots? they look very nice when grown.
ozelot's kinda ex tho. maybe c.balanse, if your patient enough to wait for them to grow, or have the luck to buy grown plants n even better luck to not have 'crypt rot'.

- no sudden movement ard the tank. even blinking. (really!) they' re the most nervous fishes i've seen. have to be careful when trimming plants too. try not to immerse too much of your arm. if u have long cutters use those. n go slow.

- if u cant feed beefheart u can try bloodworms. adding vitamins is a good idea. i use sera's fishtamin. my discus only eat bloodworms in any case.
dun feed beefheart in a planted tank, fouls the water too much. wats leftover usually stays in the canister. stinky.[]

- try to keep them as a group of bout 6. more is better, if u have the space. unless u have a pair tho, then 2 is fine.

- water changes at least once a week, n clean your filter media often.

- try not to keep overly active fishes, like rainbow fishes, or tiger barbs, etc. discus prefer more peaceful companions. like cardinals, rummy noses, etc. if u have open space on your substrate u can keep a small sch of corys. they help to clean up anything the discus cant finish.

i have some ottos in my tank. but some "rogues" will always prefer to munch on the discus slime coating. i always remove those n give them away. i'd rather not have my discus stressed. just something to take note of. some other catfishes will also do the same.

if u have small shrimps, pls provide hiding places. my previous snakeskin loved to snack on malayans AND yamatos. they wont survive attacks made by an adult discus. hehe. personal exp ok?

- as for temp... nothing below 25 degrees, i guess, but i reckon they will still do ok if u maintain your tank properly. u may want to have a hospital tank with a heater inside. they heal faster with a heater on. 29-30 degrees will do.

- well, thats all i can think of now. will add if have anything else to.. er... add.

yours sincerely,
jon.

[hobbit6003]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for sharing!

I've a few questions to ask, if you don't mind:

1. What's the size of your tank? Water parameters in terms of pH, kH,gH,temp?
2. How many discus are there? Their sizes?
3. The amt and species of the companion fish in there?
4. How long have you had discus in there?
5. Your fertiilisation regime?
6. Any algae problem? What's your NO3,PO4 reading in there?
7. Water change regime?
8. Type of filtration?
9. Any other problems encountered?

Cheers,

Kenny

[jon]

----------------
On 9/22/2003 2:11:37 PM

Hi Jon,

Thanks for sharing!

I've a few questions to ask, if you don't mind:

1. What's the size of your tank? Water parameters in terms of pH, kH,gH,temp?
2. How many discus are there? Their sizes?
3. The amt and species of the companion fish in there?
4. How long have you had discus in there?
5. Your fertiilisation regime?
6. Any algae problem? What's your NO3,PO4 reading in there?
7. Water change regime?
8. Type of filtration?
9. Any other problems encountered?

Cheers,

Kenny

----------------

i have a 3 feet tank. Kh is bout 4-5, ph dun rem. havent been testing for a while. lazy.

i NEVER test gh. i dun really see the point. lol is it important?

temp is 25 on cold days n 26-27 on other days.

i have 3 discus in there, 5 inches or so, including tail. used to have 2 more but grew stunted from the bullying. it always happens. thats y i advise keeping them in larger numbers so the aggression is spread out.

u may want to try fishio tribe for discus. recommended. (by me )

i have bout 20 cardinal tetras, 2 balloon rams, a Florida flagfish, some ottos, 2 pencil fish, a betta that jump from his puny one-room flat into landed property, and some yamatos.

how long? im not too sure. 3 mths i think. i keep the discus in a bare tank til they were 3inches or so b4 tranferring to the main tank.

as for fert i use seachem products. flourish, iron, nitrogen, potassium.
actually u dun have to use that much. i think flourish n potassium will do. maybe iron too. just chk the label on flourish.

yeah, havin some algae lately. coz my co2 dosage has been varying a lot for the past mth. work mah. then i no have auto regulator.
i believe my ammonia is close to zero. didnt chk the other.


i change about 20% of the water every weekend. i also add my fert after that.
also KH up (baking soda)

im using a canister filter, with bio rings (sinistered glass material), bio foam, and filter wool.

hmm... used to have probs feeding BW, but i bought the cup for feeding tublifex n modified it to feed BW. so its a lot cleaner than dumping whole cubes of bw.

let me know if i can help u more lol

jon.

[hobbit6003]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for your insightful reply

Well, I'm actually more concerned about the potential waste moderately large fishes like discus can generate, and the amount of phosphate feeding live food can bring.

I'm still preparing my tank for it, which is coming to 3 wks' old. A mild outbreak of ick on my ottos (stress fr constantly being picked upon by the SAEs) put paid to my plan of introducing dither fishes this weekend. I intend to introduce the discus on the 6th week mark. Heard of Discus Habitat?There's where my discus should be coming from.

I like Seachem's pdt, quite comprhensive. But for the potassium, it'll be very costly to add to my 4 fter tank, becos based on the volume of water in there (approx. 325L), 8 ml of the solution only add 1ppm of K in there! I'm gonna use Dr M's K2SO4 instead.

As for your hairy algae, try keeping the Fe in check, which used appear in my old planted tank when the Fe conc reaches above 0.5ppm.

Cheers,

Kenny

[jon]

----------------
On 9/23/2003 1:58:45 PM

Hi Jon,

Thanks for your insightful reply

Well, I'm actually more concerned about the potential waste moderately large fishes like discus can generate, and the amount of phosphate feeding live food can bring.

I'm still preparing my tank for it, which is coming to 3 wks' old. A mild outbreak of ick on my ottos (stress fr constantly being picked upon by the SAEs) put paid to my plan of introducing dither fishes this weekend. I intend to introduce the discus on the 6th week mark. Heard of Discus Habitat?There's where my discus should be coming from.

I like Seachem's pdt, quite comprhensive. But for the potassium, it'll be very costly to add to my 4 fter tank, becos based on the volume of water in there (approx. 325L), 8 ml of the solution only add 1ppm of K in there! I'm gonna use Dr M's K2SO4 instead.

As for your hairy algae, try keeping the Fe in check, which used appear in my old planted tank when the Fe conc reaches above 0.5ppm.

Cheers,

Kenny

----------------

hmm... dun worry too much bout thw waste produced. if your plants r growing nicely, it shouldnt be much of a problem. think of it as free fert =)

dun dose too much phos if u feed a lot tho.

wat kinda live food u gonna use? pls rem live food may carry parasites. IMO discus very susceptible to those. oh yes, NO TUBLIFEX WORMS PLS. lots of nasty parasites n bacteria.

n brine shrimp isnt actually very nutritous, unless the sac is still on the body.

nv heard of discus habitat =)

hmm i dun dose a lot of fe. just once a week. maybe i'll cut down anyway, n maintain my c02 dosing.

cheers,
jon.