CRS all died after introduction of plants and fish

[daversatile]

It's a really sad day for me, woke to see all my shrimps dead.

I've been successfully maintaining the crs tank for 1-2 months now.

8 CRS
ADA Amazonia II
ADA Power Sand
Wondergrow Root tablet embedded
Driftwood with Spiky Moss attached
Seiryu rocks
Zipper/Java moss

So after acquiring some Japan hairgrass, which I have attached to ceramic rings to anchor them down, I pushed them down into the substrate.

I have only two conclusions:

a) it could be that I was a little rough on the planting and it caused the sediments from substrate especially the Wondergrow root tablets

b) 2 pairs of fish introduced that might have spooked them. I am trying to find out the name of the fish and will update again. It's a red bodied, with blue lines pectoral fins that hovers a lot and stays at the bottom of the tank.

Appreciate if anyone could shed some light into this matter? I might just give up CRS keeping and move onto something else. getting to be pretty expensive now that I had 2 batches dying on me. First one was my bad, for not cycling the tank long enough.

Can anyone comment on what was the cause for this?

Thanks!

[Ray.Wu]

Hi,

Sorry for your loss.

I'm new to this forum, based on my thin knowledge of shrimp keeping, maybe I can help you find out what went wrong.

I too went thru lots of trial and errors, therefore just a simple check with you,

(1) Did you check your parameters of the tank? (This Kind of money cant save one)
(2) Did you qurantine your plant first before putting them in? Or at least rinse them with dilute salt solution?
(3) Seems to me like a new set up, dont give up! It's all about learning =)

Share abit more on your parameters may prove more help to your situation.

[redsuns]

Hi,

I think it might be due to a ammonia spike from shifting the substrate, the plants had some pest like hydra that attacked the shrimps or the fishes you introduced attacked the shrimps as most fishes are not shrimp friendly. Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps! Don't give up bro!

[SeahSengYong]

Fish no matter how small will attack shrimps for sure.

[daversatile]

thanks for all the responses guys!

i have been trying to find out what species of fish it is but to success. I was observing the fish and the shrimps. they didn't seem to be attacking the shrimps,
however, I noticed after I finished planting, all the shrimps were swimming in a frenzy and frantically. I should have known better and my mistake was not to remove them and place them in a seperate tank seeing that they were so full of activity which was abnormal.

Do you all reckon that even after cycling the tank and with the water being stable for a period of time, if one were to shift the substrate again, more ammonia could come out again? hmmm.. do you think if I should buy products to reduce the ammonia and nitrate levels?

I really want to sustain my CRS but they seem to be so sensitive, maybe I give it another shot but am hoping to understand more about these little creatures before I embark on getting another batch. Does anyone do CRS delivery to home? A bit tired of going out to get them no more

[daversatile]

Hi,

Sorry for your loss.

I'm new to this forum, based on my thin knowledge of shrimp keeping, maybe I can help you find out what went wrong.

I too went thru lots of trial and errors, therefore just a simple check with you,

(1) Did you check your parameters of the tank? (This Kind of money cant save one)
(2) Did you qurantine your plant first before putting them in? Or at least rinse them with dilute salt solution?
(3) Seems to me like a new set up, dont give up! It's all about learning =)

Share abit more on your parameters may prove more help to your situation.

(1) I did not check the parameter as I tested with a few CRS C grade and they managed to thrive on my second attempt. And I then slowly added more into the tank thinking that it was safe for higher grades (seeing that they are more sensitive compared to lower grades)
(2) I did not rinse the Japan HG, should have now that I think of it. How would salt solution make the plant safe for CRS environment?

[alvinchan80]

What elements are in the root tablets you are putting into the soil? Shrimps are sensitive to a number of stuff which is in fertilizer.. When you dig into the soil, it might have released those..

Seiryu rocks will effect PH & GH right? Might be another issue...

Adding fish is not an issue but when fish gets hungry, anything that they can fit into their mouth, they will try to..

Quarantine plants or wash plants properly before planting.. If you are planning to wash with salt.. Den you must wash away the salt because don't think shrimps can handle salt..

[Kenng]

Hi,

I had similar experience with 2 batches died on me. Luckily they are the lower grades.
The cause of my problem is quite similar to you with stirring of the soil.
The answer to my problem is a good filter. I bought a cansister filter and so far my CRS are doing well and 4 are berried.
Hope this will helps.

[Ecalyte]

The last time a similar thing happened to me.. it was because I added new plants without properly quarantining it.

Most LFS heavily dose their plant display tanks with fertilizer (most of which are deadly to CRS). If you don't quarantine it, it's instant disaster for your CRS.

I sat there and watched all my CRS start dying in a space of 1 hour within introduction of my plants..

[Ray.Wu]

(1) I did not check the parameter as I tested with a few CRS C grade and they managed to thrive on my second attempt. And I then slowly added more into the tank thinking that it was safe for higher grades (seeing that they are more sensitive compared to lower grades)
(2) I did not rinse the Japan HG, should have now that I think of it. How would salt solution make the plant safe for CRS environment?

Hmm. I think the safest way to do it is to at least have some basic kits to test ph, gh, NO2, NO3, kh for higher grades.. Increase in bioload, grades of shrimp all seems to post to be a factor for the health of your new and existing shrimps. =)

Dilute salt water (about 1/30 parts mixture) helps by removing hurtful substance that may affect the shrimps. Therefore like what bro alvinchan80 mention, quarantine or rinsing in sale solution helps. Of cause you have to wash away the salt solution too. =)

Im sure listening to bro alvinchan80 wont be wrong, as he is very good in plants handling (from many threads he has been posting). Nice pictures bro alvin btw. =)

[alvinchan80]

Thanks bro ray.. I do still have the 'itchy hand syndrome' which causes me to try add plants, this & that to my tank.. Haha.. Which I think is my major problem..

Added plants to my now suppose-to-be 'bare' shrimp tank.. Injecting CO2 for plants too.. But till now things seems ok as I am controlling myself from adding more plants.. More plants are transferred from my scape before reset of soil..

Just a lesson learnt on my past aquascape tank is that, rocks is not a good thing to be in a tank with expensive shrimps.. And even fertilizer also must be kept at minimum as those little critters are so sensitive..

[Ray.Wu]

No prob bro alvin. =)

Everyone likes their tanks to be pretty and nice. =) My gf is complaining I look at the shrimp tank more than her... =X

Bro daversatile, any new shrimps added already?

[alvinchan80]

No prob bro alvin. =)

Everyone likes their tanks to be pretty and nice. =) My gf is complaining I look at the shrimp tank more than her... =X

Bro daversatile, any new shrimps added already?

Well, my girlfriend said the same thing and ask me to buy mattress put beside the tank.. Before sleep can 'wish good night' to my heybi & morning can do the same.. She say I should do that since that what I do every single day.. Haha...

[daversatile]

What elements are in the root tablets you are putting into the soil? Shrimps are sensitive to a number of stuff which is in fertilizer.. When you dig into the soil, it might have released those..

Seiryu rocks will effect PH & GH right? Might be another issue...

Adding fish is not an issue but when fish gets hungry, anything that they can fit into their mouth, they will try to..

Quarantine plants or wash plants properly before planting.. If you are planning to wash with salt.. Den you must wash away the salt because don't think shrimps can handle salt..

Hi alvinchan, thanks for your advise/comments, I have actually been following your postings from Shrimpnow (totally envy your setup) as well and it got me really interested in this hobby!

first of all, the rocks are fine as I've been keeping the shrimps for a few months and that was no concern I reckon.

secondly, the root tablets I had gotten were fish and invertebrates friendly, however having said that, I think it together with the stirring of substrate cause the spike in in nirtrates and ammonia.

[daversatile]

Hi,

I had similar experience with 2 batches died on me. Luckily they are the lower grades.
The cause of my problem is quite similar to you with stirring of the soil.
The answer to my problem is a good filter. I bought a cansister filter and so far my CRS are doing well and 4 are berried.
Hope this will helps.

Hi Kenng, thanks for sharing your exprience. I think I have concluded that it was due to the that.

Yes I agree, totally believe that filter investent is a 101 to long term hobbyist! I have a Eheim pro 130 external canister filter, in fact I have 2 of them!

[daversatile]

The last time a similar thing happened to me.. it was because I added new plants without properly quarantining it.

Most LFS heavily dose their plant display tanks with fertilizer (most of which are deadly to CRS). If you don't quarantine it, it's instant disaster for your CRS.

I sat there and watched all my CRS start dying in a space of 1 hour within introduction of my plants..

Thanks and sorry to hear about you having the same loss as me Ecalyte!

I knew something was wrong, but it was already late at night and I had work the next day, I just left it as it is and hope for the best.
After much thinking, this was probably a 50/50 that caused the loss. But at this point, I am more leaning towards the spike in nitrate and ammonia from the soil.

[daversatile]

No prob bro alvin. =)

Everyone likes their tanks to be pretty and nice. =) My gf is complaining I look at the shrimp tank more than her... =X

Bro daversatile, any new shrimps added already?

Bro Ray, here's a few updates to my tank and a more defined list of my tank specs etc;

8 CRS
ADA Amazonia II
ADA Power Sand
Wondergrow Root tablet embedded
Driftwood with xmas Moss attached
Seiryu rocks
Zipper/Java moss
Eheim 2032 - with bio ceramic rings added
ph- 6.3-6.8

I have yet to test my setup for gh, NO2, NO3, kh yet - more of a trial by error person (it's a risk but i approach it through research on the internet of course). Is there any suggestions as to whether there are sets which I can purchase which will test all the following instead of buying all seperate test kits?

Ok, here's my biggest update and I have boldly chosen to do...
So I have embarked on setting up a dwarf puffer tank (i know you guys are already rolling your eyes :P) with other flora and fauna added.

- 6 yellow DP
- 4 red badis (they seem to be coexisting with the DP) and this was the mystery fish that I first introduced before my shrimps died. So I don't think they were the cause. (?)
- carpet HC
- added Yamato shrimp (this will be my control creature as to whether they will survive living with the dwarf puffers or not) And from many researched articles/forums - there has been success in them being tankmates with the DPs.
- more plants which I do not have the slightest clue their names are as I bought them in haste after work.
If this works, I might slowly introduce ghost shrimps/cherry but I am taking this step with much caution.

Have also provided lots of foliage to break the line of sight of the DPs which will reduce the aggresiveness.

And here are some updates and findings after doing over the weekend:

1) Puffers seems to be chasing/taunting each other but not the badis
2) Puffers do not seem to be biting/hounding the Yamato
3) more algae has formed on the glass and rocks since I lost my CRS
4) the puffers don't seem to like going into the bamboo pipes for shade and they prefer hanging underneath/around plants

Any opinions or comments are most welcomed!
I will perhaps post some pictures sometime soon.

[alvinchan80]

Hi alvinchan, thanks for your advise/comments, I have actually been following your postings from Shrimpnow (totally envy your setup) as well and it got me really interested in this hobby!

first of all, the rocks are fine as I've been keeping the shrimps for a few months and that was no concern I reckon.

secondly, the root tablets I had gotten were fish and invertebrates friendly, however having said that, I think it together with the stirring of substrate cause the spike in in nirtrates and ammonia.

Oh.. Thanks for taking notice of my thread in other forums and well, its also that tank which made me realize some of the things which can be avoided to make a shrimp tank work out... been through shrimps dying and also lots of problems with water perimeters.. but when it comes to rocks, the shrimps will be very fine for a few months and nothing will seems like an issue, but GH will keep raising no matter how you try to bring down.. PH will also fluctuate depending on what rocks you are using as well.. i have hit a high GH of 14dGH (a good 14 drops of liquid test which is a total waste of test kits liquid) before and it is really too high for shrimps.. if you going back into CRS keeping, try remove rocks... it does helps or you can be like me, go against all odds to try make it work out.. haha..

but overall summary is, simple setup and avoid the 'itchy hand syndrome' which is like so hard on me... haha...

i think most probably like what you have conclude will be the ammonia spike when you accidentally stirred the soil.. another point also to point out that, although they state that those root tablets are fish & invertebrate safe.. but might not be CRS safe.. CRS tends to be very sensitive to even a very small amount of elements which they are not used to.. i have added fertilizer & liquid co2 before to my previous tank... and they seems fine... but that doesnt mean that they will be fine in another set up as well, so I cannot comment so much on this also...

Bro Ray, here's a few updates to my tank and a more defined list of my tank specs etc;

8 CRS
ADA Amazonia II
ADA Power Sand
Wondergrow Root tablet embedded
Driftwood with xmas Moss attached
Seiryu rocks
Zipper/Java moss
Eheim 2032 - with bio ceramic rings added
ph- 6.3-6.8

I have yet to test my setup for gh, NO2, NO3, kh yet - more of a trial by error person (it's a risk but i approach it through research on the internet of course). Is there any suggestions as to whether there are sets which I can purchase which will test all the following instead of buying all seperate test kits?

Ok, here's my biggest update and I have boldly chosen to do...
So I have embarked on setting up a dwarf puffer tank (i know you guys are already rolling your eyes :P) with other flora and fauna added.

- 6 yellow DP
- 4 red badis (they seem to be coexisting with the DP) and this was the mystery fish that I first introduced before my shrimps died. So I don't think they were the cause. (?)
- carpet HC
- added Yamato shrimp (this will be my control creature as to whether they will survive living with the dwarf puffers or not) And from many researched articles/forums - there has been success in them being tankmates with the DPs.
- more plants which I do not have the slightest clue their names are as I bought them in haste after work.
If this works, I might slowly introduce ghost shrimps/cherry but I am taking this step with much caution.

Have also provided lots of foliage to break the line of sight of the DPs which will reduce the aggresiveness.

And here are some updates and findings after doing over the weekend:

1) Puffers seems to be chasing/taunting each other but not the badis
2) Puffers do not seem to be biting/hounding the Yamato
3) more algae has formed on the glass and rocks since I lost my CRS
4) the puffers don't seem to like going into the bamboo pipes for shade and they prefer hanging underneath/around plants

Any opinions or comments are most welcomed!
I will perhaps post some pictures sometime soon.

So right now you are not going into CRS for the time being right? haha.. I did thought of keeping a small tank of figure8 puffers before for my girlfriend, but i am also worried that if I am caught staring at my shrimp tank for too long, end up 1 day, she might just catch 1 puffer into my shrimp tank and that single puffer will be having a buffet feast of shrimps...

but take your time, it takes awhile for tank to mature... I am currently injecting CO2 to reduce algae growth and promote plant growth... so really depends on setup to setup i guess..

for test kits, try to avoid getting those comprehensive test kits that test everything like test strips.. they are not accurate in their readings.. you can try going for SERA liquid test kits... but still have to purchase different test separately, but at least you know that you will be getting the correct readings from them..

[hyun007]

I think the fish you mentioning is either Neon Tetra or Cardinal Tetra.
I do not think they will harm your adult shrimp.
I had them in my tank with my shrimps and the shrimps population is growing.

So, it must be related to the planting.

[llhan]

Check the water parameter.