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Thread: The problem with fins...

  1. #1
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    The problem with fins...

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    Hi guys,

    Here's a picture of a goby that I photographed last week.



    I was trying to use a darker background so as to highlight the fish better. However, the problem with dark background is that the dosal and caudal fins (especially the clear ones) get "sucked" in the the background.

    For comments and critique.

    Cheers,
    I have dwarf cichlids in my tanks! Do you?

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    Wonder whether fill-in flash for the background will help.

    BC

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    Maybe try using light green plants as background?

    I remembered one exhibit at the Science Centre last year where they had a tank of Glass Catfish with some sort of polariser (I think) in front. When you look at the fish through that polariser, the fish bones become very prominent. Sorry I did not read exactly the explanation behind. Anyone did?

    Maybe there's such a thing to bring about more contrast to the fins???
    koah fong
    Juggler's tanks

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    try it with circ polariser lens maybe?

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    Perhaps you can tell us your width of the tank? What lights you use and how you use it to take this shot?

    The background is still quite distracting. Try to get a softer background if you can. There're few possible ways to do it, depending on how you take, what's your constrain, and what lens you using.

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    ----------------
    On 9/26/2003 12:47:02 AM

    try it with circ polariser lens maybe?

    ----------------
    One of my favourite filter for nature photography is polarizer filter. The wonder of polarizing filter is that it cuts off those reflection on the surface, be that water surface, leaves or glass, and enrich its color with higher saturation.

    The disadvantage of such filter is that it cuts off almost 2 stops of your speed lights. So if you're taking fish or fast moving objects, it will become rather difficult if you want to freeze motion. However, using flash will help such problem, but you must be good with those lights else it become overdoing. You can also use such filter to create motions line.

    For this case, I doubt it's going to help much, since it's not really the problem on reflection, but try it if you like to verify yourself.

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    ----------------
    On 9/26/2003 11:15:30 AM

    Perhaps you can tell us your width of the tank? What lights you use and how you use it to take this shot?
    ----------------
    Er. I don't really see what the width of the tank has anything to do with bring out the fins, but it's a 1 ft wide tank. The depth is 20 cm and the height is 24 cm. It's a small tank.

    As for the light, there's one flash mounted on top and one flash mounted on the left to ensure that the fish belly is properly illuminated.


    ----------------
    On 9/26/2003 11:15:30 AM

    The background is still quite distracting. Try to get a softer background if you can. There're few possible ways to do it, depending on how you take, what's your constrain, and what lens you using.
    ----------------
    I've deliberately blured out the background using a smaller aperture on a 100 mm macro lens. Otherwise, the plants will be showing. I don't think it can be any 'softer' unless you are talking about a complete black background like this.



    The main critism about the above is that although the fishes are presented without distraction, it seems static and quite fake. Almost as if the fishes were edged out in Adobe photoshop and pasted on a black ground. This picture was actually shot in a 2 ft tank with black oyama paper as background.

    A slightly out of focused background with a bit of the fishes environment (be it plants or rocks) is consider ideal by some. So I suppose it a balance of tying to show the fish or the fish and it's environment (which can include some really horrible looking background).

    Seng Yong, how would you soften the background in the case of the first picture? At the same time prevent the fins from becoming even more obscured by the background.

    Cheers,
    I have dwarf cichlids in my tanks! Do you?

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    I don't have a problem with the pics, it really depends on the purpose. If the object is to show the details of the fish then we have to sacrifice some photographic artisticism, so a dead-centred, everything in ultrasharp detail, and natural background, should be fine.

    however if the object is fish-based PHOTOGRAPHY, then you want to apply those photographic rules, including non-profile pose of the fish even.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Benny, for the width, actually I'm just trying to understand your technical constrain when taking such photos. The distance from camera/flash to object, and object to background, play one of the important role in figuring out how will your background appear finally.

    Yes, it's better to take a subject showing some details of its natural habitat. It will definitely add interest to your main subject. A background that is more subdue can possibly enhance subject beauty. However, if there's certain degree of contrasty color, there're few possibility that can happen. If the lines/contrast are harmonious, it can enhance the beauty and interest to the subject. If not, there is a possible conflict of visual emphasis.

    The tail background is more subdue, the front background has a stronger green lines intersecting the fish. I guess it's probably due to your flash light. It is not a problem if there're more such green lines to create interesting rhythm. A single line itself of such brightness can be quite jarring and create visual conflict. However, I must say that given such a constrain for a small tank, it's a very good shot!

    I guess you must have use a diffuser or whatever to soften your flashlight. You can try this, experiment with a harsher light(means without softening of light) to cast shadow. Flash it around 45deg off camera, even frontal near to 90deg at the side of the tank. The angle you can experiment more. Then give some fill-in to your shadow if only there's a need, but not too much that the shadow is lost.

    This often will create interesting texture of the fish and the texture of the fin should light up. It works for my nature photography, and I think it will work for yours too. However, if the fin is naturally too fine and almost transparent, then it will be quite difficult, and doing backlighting might be another alternative then. But the physical constrain is then another consideration.

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    ----------------
    On 9/26/2003 6:33:21 PM

    Benny, for the width, actually I'm just trying to understand your technical constrain when taking such photos. The distance from camera/flash to object, and object to background, play one of the important role in figuring out how will your background appear finally.

    ----------------
    Ah.. you are refering to the depth of the tank not the width of the tank.

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    On 9/26/2003 6:33:21 PM

    I guess you must have use a diffuser or whatever to soften your flashlight. You can try this, experiment with a harsher light(means without softening of light) to cast texture shadow. Flash it around 45deg off camera, even frontal near to 90deg at the side of the tank. The angle you can experiment more. Then give some fill-in to your shadow if only there's a need, but not too much that the shadow is lost.

    This often will create interesting texture of the fish and the texture of the fin should light up. It works for my nature photography, and I think it will work for yours too. However, if the fin is naturally too fine and almost transparent, then it will be quite difficult, and doing backlighting might be another alternative then. But the physical constrain is then another consideration.
    ----------------
    Back lighting in the tank is not physically possble. But I am considering a flash in front of the black background before the back glass pane. Still toying with the concept. Putting lights at 45 degrees or almost 90 degrees but at the side will give me a very uneven illumination. Tried it and it does not work well.

    This is precisely why I enjoy aquatic photography. The challenges that the physical constraint imposes as well as the dynamic nature of the subject. Never a dull moment!

    Cheers,
    I have dwarf cichlids in my tanks! Do you?

  11. #11
    benny, I kinda think the background is very distracting cuz it looks abstract and you can't tell its a natural background blurred.Maybe you can increase the DOF just a liiitle bit more? Just enuff to be able to make out what the background is but still with nice bokeh? And maybe the background needs more contrast to make head or tail of it? So maybe the trick isn't in increasing DOF but and/or increasing contrast with backgrounds of different shades of gery/black (if you trying to keep it dark) or with plants, etc if you don't mind bright colours?

    lighting wise, I think if you have top and side lighting, its hard for the fins to reflect and show up. I think fins reflect best when the light is ummm how to describe, diagonal in 3D way to the fin. ie full front al lighting then move upwards 45 deg and to the right or left 45 deg again. donno, just my own guess, maybe you could just grab a torchlight or reading lamp and shine directional light at your fish and see which angle gives best reflection of the fin? also just another tot, maybe you can use reflector outside your tank to act as the fin light instead of another slave?

    Personally I think your current lighting is fantastic so if I were you, I"ll keep it, but just need to add one more light to give nice reflection of the fins.

    hhmm I think practically wise, if you can find a great angle for fin reflection for a fish in a stock position, eg body parallel to glass of tank, you could set up your flashes or flashes plus reflector such that this angle is always set, than since you using DSLR, just wait and anyhow snap like siao when fish is in the stock position plus when it shifts a little bit, then practically wise, it would be quite easy for you? just set up, wait, trigger, wait, trigger?

    heh... paiseh I damn kaypoh, tok so much...

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    ----------------
    On 9/26/2003 7:50:54 PM

    This is precisely why I enjoy aquatic photography. The challenges that the physical constraint imposes as well as the dynamic nature of the subject. Never a dull moment!

    ----------------
    Glad to hear that. Guess that's what make your photos of higher standard...

    There's another way which might be of help to you. Consider reducing your flash distance to your subject if possible.

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