Altum Angels/Alenquer Cuipea Discus - where can we buy good batches of these beauty?

[evilfry]

Hi everyone,

would like to know where can i buy these beauties in Singapore, or do we have to order them from overseas?

Also, is it a good idea to mix them?

Thanks in advance!

[EvolutionZ]

Altum angel's season will come soon in july/august.. im waiting for them also.

[evilfry]

thanks for info Evo bro - where is best to purchase them or make bookings? =D

[bossteck]

You can try Fish Haven at Telok Blangah.

[evilfry]

Thanks Eric!

I will visit Fish Haven soon, fingers crossed

[David Moses Heng]

I believe there are multiple writeup in the forum on mixing altum with discus. But in a nit shell, it is not advisable to mix as there are parasites which are harmless to altums but deadly to discus.

Hope I got it right...

[evilfry]

Hey let me do some search. thanks for the heads up!

[illumnae]

Just a few points:

1. Fish Haven no longer deals in wild fish. For the past 2 years he's been dealing in Luohan. I dropped by last month and chatted with the owner. Very unfortunate that we lost a good source of wild fish

2. The "parasites which are harmless to altums but deadly to discus" is a morphed urban legend. I first read about it > 10 years ago as a kid, where the urban legend related to any angelfish and not just altums. You just have to ask around online to debunk this urban legend. Plenty of people have kept angelfish with discus with no ill effect. I myself have kept wildcaught altums with wildcaught heckel discus as well as wildcaught green discus (2 separate tanks) with no issues. I've since sold the green discus, but the altums and heckels are both still alive today, 3 years down the road (though I've separated them already). I emphasize wildcaught because the urban legend allegedly refers to the parasite being naturally occurring in the wild. This in itself is ridiculous, as discus and angelfish co-exist perfectly fine in the wild (though admittedly no discus live where altums are found - is this why the urban legend morphed to specify altums as the only parasite carrier now?). In a nutshell, don't worry about the "parasite" - it doesn't exist.

3. What you do need to take note of is feeding. Angelfish (including altums) tend to be more aggressive feeders that like to feed from the surface and water column while the food is dropping. Discus, on the other hand, are more passive in nature and they also naturally tend to sift the substrate for food. As you can imagine, bullying during feeding and not having enough food left for the discus may pose a problem for you if you were to keep discus and altums together. This was something I observed when I kept my discus and altums together. One way to get around this is to feed the altums first at one corner of the tank to get them focussed on that corner, then go feed the discus in the other corner. After awhile, my discus got more proactive at recognizing (a) the food; (b) feeding time; and (c) the feeder (me) approaching the tank and started giving the altums a run for their money on the food. Within a few months, I had no more problems with feeding and just fed them all at once and let them sort themselves out. However, do note that your mileage may vary as being cichlids, each individual altum and discus may have different behavorial characteristics within the confined of commonly observed species characteristics. Some may be more timid while others may be more bold.

My first post after a long hiatus from this forum. Hope it helps

[David Moses Heng]

Yi Xiang, thanks for clearing the air.

Actually what you say is quite true...

[evilfry]

Thanks Yi Xiang bro, very good points and i will certainly bear in mind!

Yes, Fish Haven no longer deals with wild discus - called them up last week and was told the same.
Now still searching for sources, even emailed some overseas (brazil) contacts to see if they ship to Singapore.
Let me know if you have a source ok? Thanks!!

James

[David Moses Heng]

Actually, you may want to contact Thio of BIOTOPE SERVICES and ask him to help source.

[RonWill]

Biotope? Friend, perhaps you didn't read this?

[David Moses Heng]

I think i need to help set the record right.

The one that close is the retail arm of BIOTOPE SERVICES aka BIOTOPE Aquarium. The parent company, BIOTOPE SERVICES PTE LTD is still going STRONG.

Thank you.

[RonWill]

Ah... so sorry... my bad. I think Biotope's management need to clarify it as well. So Biotope Services Pte Ltd will be catering to online orders for wild-caughts??

[David Moses Heng]

if there is a demeand, I believe that we will still cater for it.

Regards.

[RonWill]

AltumLover, something struck my mind while reading your reply (with "we will still cater for it") but are you part of Biotope's team or a loyal customer? No ulterior motives but curiosity is a bug that I've yet to work out.

Sorry I couldn't be more diplomatic but I'm just too blunt and uninformed (out of the circle for too long).

BTW, how do I address you? I'm Ron... if it wasn't obvious enough!!

[David Moses Heng]

I am part of the team. David here.

[illumnae]

James, just some comments from someone who's been very much into wild discus for the past 3 years.

If you're specifically looking for Alenquer/Cuipea discus, then there's no other source to get it from than Hudson of H&K discus (Brazil). He's the only one I can say is trustworthy of his actual sources of discus. Many exporters in Brazil and importers worldwide have no qualms about slapping an "Alenquer" tag on a brown/blue discus that shows some reddish colour just to add a premium to the price of the fish. Hence, your "Alequer" could easily have come from Nhamunda or even Xingu for all you know. These exporters get wild discus from all sources of collectors and then sort the fish according to size, grade (pattern) and colour. After the mix and match sorting, the exporters/importers will then slap on nametags to the batches of discus based on the sorted characteristics. This is where we get totally coined up names like "Lago Solomon" wild discus, where no such lake with discus actually exist - this tag is slapped on especially large discus (>6" diameter). Likewise, "Xingu" wilds are typically yellow-based brown discus, and then you have "Nhamunda" blues that are really just reddish royals and "Alenquer" or "Cuipea" or "Curipera" (no such lake exists, but the discus are marked as being from this mythical locality) are the more red-based discus. As you can tell by now, each of these tags only refers to a characteristic, NOT a locality.

The problem with getting fish from Hudson are: 1. Price - his fish come at a premium (US$300-500 a piece shipped) but the quality is world class 2. Availability - Hudson doesn't do "mass market". He sends fishermen out to specific rivers on specific trips to ensure his collection locality remains accurate. What this means is that at any one point in time, you cannot be 100% sure that he has the exact locality that you want. For example, this month he may have available blues and Heckels from the Rio Nhamunda...fish which were not available 2 months back. 2 months back instead he had Coari green discus. Hence, if you've already "missed the boat" on this year's Alenquer/Cuipea catch from him, you may have to wait till next year. My personal example was when I was actively sourcing for Nhamunda "Blue Moon" heckels last year...I couldn't get any for a few months until I finally gave up and saved some money by acquiring wild discus locally instead. My humble opinion is really that if you can't manage to get fish from H&K, you may as well just go with my suggested option below and get the fish locally. The extra cost of shipping in fish specially doesn't justify not being 100% certain of the source. At the time I was sourcing, I had exporters from Taiwan, Hong Kong and Malaysia offer "Blue Moon Heckels" to me, but when I obtained pictures of the actual fish, they were all just normal heckels or, at best, "Blue-face" ones. These are easily available locally every year during wild discus season at a fraction of the price.

If you're not specifically looking for Alenquer/Cuipea discus, and just want beautiful red based discus, just look around locally. There are plenty. Over the past 3 months, I have acquired almost 20 pieces of very good quality red based blue discus. Locality is unknown, and all are from C328, but they're definitely all red based, and though not royal blues, they all have blue striations on their bodies in varying degrees. I have to repeat, all are red based like Alenquer/Cuipea discus, some more so than others. Just have some patience and look around. There are currently still 3-4 pieces of very good quality red based ones available at C328 as I type this. C328 also has a batch of very nice greens with a full body sheen (not the type with just brown body and striations/dots...this one has the green sheen all-body) - and some even show promise to have nice body spots (though not full body) when groomed well. All this is obtained locally at a fraction of the price. You just don't pay for the "brand" of the locality name, while obtaining a similar quality. Aside from C328, other LFS that bring in wild discus during the season include NKS and JZX Pet Boutique.

Just my humble opinion from the last couple years of research and experience in sourcing for wild discus personally. Hope this helps

[illumnae]

Here are some lousy shots of some of the blue discus I have in my tank which were taken a month or so back (so missing some of the latest additions). You can't really see the extent of red due to the bad lighting and murky water, but you definitely can see traces of it in all of them. they all cost less than 1/4 of the shipped price from Hudson. When I first got them, comparing the fish to pictures from Heiko Bleher's discus book, they look like they're either from the Alenquer or Nhamunda - both regions with reportedly red discus.

[ZackZhou]

hi, just trying to help, does chai discus worth a look if you are getting some?
Mr chai if not wrong is quite good with discus.
sorry as i do not know much about them.
cheers