I've also posted this on AKA and thought it might be useful for those who don't visit there.
---
Hey everyone, I'm Anil from Istanbul. Into my 3rd year of keeping killies, which makes quite inexperienced compared to the lot of you...I want to share my experience with diapteron fry.
Contrary to popular belief, diapteron fry have been growing very fast for me. The fish I will share below, is from a batch of eggs that were put in water in April 12, 2011. It's over 3cm now (close to 1.5 inches). In the first month, it was already an inch (2cm). It's a cyanostictum.
22652029.jpg
36641268.jpg
73906400.jpg
What is my method ?
A very big container full of plants, no water change for at least a month and plenty of food. A week before I put the fry in this container; I inject it with cyclops, green water and moina. After I put the fry, I feed them regularly with vinegar eels, microworms and BBS alternating as whichever is available.
Here is my fry tank, 60x60cm (yes i know it's kinda big for only fry, but it does make a difference)
diaptyavru.jpg
My other fry in sterile small containers such as icecream boxes or shoe boxes; have stayed quite small compared to the ones above.
I use this same method for R. Xiphidius and the same thing goes. I'm also against making too many water changes. I think it's not healthy or natural at all. I change my Xiphidius fry water once a week and they are pushing their 3rd month now.
I hope this helps, good luck with your fish...
Anil, I'm very glad to hear you're still killie keeping and successful in raising fry of strikingly beautiful Diapteron cyanostictum. More details, please, regarding water parameters and temperature. Do update your progress if possible. The Diapteron genus is one I've attempted but never had much luck with, especially during local hot spells.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Hey Ron, thank youI am keeping r. xiphidius, d. fulgens, d. georgiae, d. cyanostictum, a. joergenscheeli, a. ocellatum, a. bualanum, a. elberti and some others right now. Needless to say I am exhausted! And even worse, I am totally out of space - the bane of every killie fan out there, I guess.
My water parameters for Cyanostictum are; temp: 21-23C, DH:2, PHI quit testing for PH a while ago. I only use water aged with catappa leaves when I want to add water and I don't add water unless it vaporizes down to about 4cm. I keep the water level at about 8-10cm. Basically I add fresh water about every 3 weeks-1 month.
Progress is still pretty fast. I've "caught" females over 4cm but I still have to sit down and do a proper count. It's a huge space and filled with surface plants, you can guess the nightmare when it comes to catching them.
A fast look tells me I have over 30 fry but with Georgiae fry included. I also have a couple of Fulgens fry in there, but I don't know if they made it yet.
I'll take a couple of new pictures soon, I don't want to disturb them too often. These below are from the breeding parents,
diaptbr2.jpg
diaptbr3.jpg
diaptbr.jpg
Same water parameters. I keep them in a quite large and round container, sort of like a mini pool.
The hands-off approach did wonders for me too. Nice to see your fishes growing up.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
Thank you Stormhawk
The temperature has started to hit 24-25C, let's see how they are going to cope.
I found with Diapterons that they are more sensitive to O2 levels than temperature. Temperature becomes a problem from about 28 deg C and up. If you keep the water shallow (about 10 cm) and well aerated then the Diapterons stand temperatures as high as 28 deg C without too much trouble.
Oh wow, hi! I have read your guides back when I was first starting this hobby (not too long ago to be honest, my 3rd year now). They've been very helpful. Thanks for sharing your insight, I am honoured.
I keep the water level at 8-10cm for all my diapterons, joergenscheeli, ocellatum and kathethys group. Everybody's been busy breeding except Joergenscheeli! I guess Joergenscheeli wants some current but I am not able to provide that yet as I need a bigger tank.
Anyway, I have a few questions if/when you have the time...Do you still keep Cyanostictum "Yekara" population ? I've seen you put up an auction for that though it may have been for someone else, I don't remember.
Since you live in Africa, do you go collecting in the wild ? I have heard of some of the dangers (ebola, internal turmoil...etc) but I've been wondering if anyone at all goes diapteron collecting...Is it really that impossible ?
Last edited by an1l; 28th Jun 2011 at 21:29. Reason: spelling mistake
Anil, the concerns of temperature and O² level for Diapteron and highland killifishes were addressed (more or less) by Wright Huntley (bless him, wherever he is hanging out now). He's also an advocate for Henri deBruyn mini wet/dry filters. There's also a much older thread on Diap. cynostictum here.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Hey Ron, thank you very much for your input. I have read the CYA thread before but I didn't know there was a thread on DeBruyn filters here. It seems very detailed, delicious!
I also have a PDF file with instructions on how to build one but I am just not the kind to craft DIY stuff like thatI will definitely give it a go in the future. It's not that difficult actually; I have done similar things, very crude versions of the filter, just not the fancy and whole version yet.
Today I found eggs in Fulgens tank and fry in Georgiae tank
Perhaps a simulated rainfall might help? Running a sprinkler system for vivariums/paludariums, or just rigging up a small rainbar might help in inducing them to breed. I can ask my friend for tips since he has bred jorgenscheeli before.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
Stormhawk that would be a huge help! I keep researching but all I can find so far are these keywords: "cold water, current, big tank"...And some breeders dismiss the "cold water" and "big tank" readily. It's confusing.
I hadn't thought of a sprinkler system. Are there such things for vivariums and palus ? That would be awesome. I've been running trickle/drip system but it's definitely not rainfall
Can you please ask about his/her setup ? I have a trio but one of the females is bigger and she bullies the male. I am planning to seperate her but totally out of space at the moment...
Don't know if you know it, Ron, but Wright had a stroke 2 years ago. All I know is that he is alive but in what condition he is living I have no idea. :-(Originally Posted by RonWill
I don't keep any Cyanostictum any more. We had some very warm years 5 years back which pretty much put me off Aphyosemion. I do still have some australe about. They can take the heat and low O2. Steve Davidson of the BKA keeps the Diapteron you mention. I don't do any collecting. Its illegal in South Africa and I'm yet visit the neighboring countries.
Rudolf Koubek says the joergenscheeli come from streams at 14 deg C! But they do breed at the same temps as the others but the males are very territorial and hard on the females. They also mature slowly. The person you want to ask questions of is Bob Merritt of the BKA. Visit http://www.bka.org.uk/forum/ and ask there.
All the best!
Good Lord... I didn't know!! Hope he's coping well though. The last time Wright met up with us in SG for KillieChat Dec 2006, he appeared fit as a fiddle. Tyrone, I'll have to write to Bill Ruyle and see what's happening. Thanks for informing us.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Anil, a very viable alternative is to use Overhead Filters (OHF) that rests on the tank's rim. Most are equipped with a powerhead and drip-boxes. Additional drip-boxes can be purchased to create a higher stack for more or different media. Think of it as a wet/dry above-tank instead of a sump but show us some pics of your trickle system.... I'm listening!
The dripping allows a greater contact with the atmosphere and effectively brings down temperatures by between 2_3 degrees (depending on how one sets it up and/or modified) via evaporative cooling.
In my previous 4ft multi-tier recirculating setup, I was able to achieve 24.5ºC during the windy monsoon season but alas, that's an annual affair and peak breeding season for my killies.
Try to source for OHFs in your local LFSs. Worst case scenario... roll up ya sleeves and get dirty DIY-ing. Your killies will thank you for it.
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
There are misting systems for vivariums and paludariums, just not easily found where I am located. Often we have to purchase the parts via eBay and online stores. DIY-ing may get you somewhere, but it doesn't beat ready-made equipment. I will try and contact my buddy for jorgenscheeli tips. He gave away his fish since he's relocating, but he did mention that they were difficult to spawn.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
Hey guys, thank you all for the great information, those gave me some ideas. I didn't know they lived in waters as cold as 14C, that's helpful. It's funny, I wish we knew more about the collection sites but I understand the dangers (and obviously illegal) aspects of it.
OHF sounds like a great idea Ron, I wonder why I never thought of it. My system is a small powerhead lifting water from the tank via an airhose. It then goes through a pot of gravel sitting at the top of the tank and drips down into the tank. Honestly I just did it so I could rest my soul at easeThe fish were quite alright before that. I will post some pics of my tank(s) soon.
I can get such rainfall systems from USA I think, I have a source coming over to visit in July. It's a great idea Stormhawk, I am actually gonna try it with other species as well. Funny I never thought of it before since I have a paludarium and all...
I was talking to a friend who recently also acquired Joergenscheeli. He put his pair in a 15L tank with a small filter and mops; well, they've been breeding since ! I wonder if my fish are just too young...He says they are very peaceful. And so said the breeder I got my fish from; his fish are peaceful too. I am thinking of trying this small tank method. My fish may even be breeding, who knows, I've just never seen them do it. My tank is a big one.
Anyway, we'll see soon hopefully.
Today I'll be sitting down to count my diapteron fry. Excited! Hoping for a good number and sex ratio.
Well, if you get any info please let me know too. All I could get was his home address for slow post, but if he can't type an email then I can't believe he is staying at home... I haven't been able to get any news.
Anil, I think you can somehow DIY the sprinklers by poking holes through a piece of airline tubing, and making a small powerhead push water through the tube, with the end blocked by a plug, so the water is forced through the airline tubing's mini holes that you poked. Much like a rainbar, except on a smaller scale.
My friend got back to me regarding the jorgenscheeli and he said all they needed was cool water and good live food. His spawned without much effort.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
Hey Stormhawk, thank you my friend. I've just been able to find some time and squeezed in an effort to breed them, hopefully I'll be sharing good news in near future. As simple as it is, I am so exhausted right now that I don't think I'll be to construct anything for them. If they won't breed, so be it...For now. I'll try again after summer, if hopefully they are alive by then.
In the meantime, back to the topic on diapteron fry, I'd like to correct some mistakes I've made here so as not to mislead anyone.
- My biggest fry turned out to be 3cm. I have surely no females over 4cm, I don't know how I made that up ? Males are larger, around 3cm while females are more like 2cm. I have a good ratio, mostly females and a couple of males.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks