Hi All
I am new here (2 hours old I think), and if I am posting in the wrong place, my apologies.
I just got 2 RES from a neighbor who didn't want them any more. I just bought a tank, with a filter (which, doesn't seem to be adequate in keeping the water clean).
Need some advice on the following:
- Lighting:
- What type of light should I get them? where? wattage? estimated price would also help.
- Water quality:
- Do I need to worry about chlorine? Or would they be fine?
- What about pH?
- Frequency of water change? I guess, when it starts getting cloudy or when it starts to smell?
- Feeding:
- I tried to keep the water clean by taking them out & feeding them in a small plastic container separately. But they seem more preoccupied with wanting to escape than to eat
- How to give them a well balanced diet? They seem to like raw shrimp.
- Acclimatization:
- These 2 I have do not seem to be comfortable with humans. Other RES I see in pet shops seem to ignore humans, and even associate them with food!! Is it something they will eventually 'learn'?
Thank you in advance.
More questions that popped up:
- How much food to give them? Meaning, how to balance between not letting them get too big too quickly and yet, not starving them
- How much water to give them & how deep?
The 2 RES I have are about 2 inches from head to tail.
Basking Light
Repti Glo 5.0 by Exo terra
Read that Pet Mart @ Serangoon North sells it for $20++. You also probably could check out Pet Lovers Center's Pet Safari @ Vivo.
Use any clamp on lighting fixture for the bulb or get something like this for I think $30-40++
Some prefer the incandescent UV bulbs that acts as a heat lamp. Those blow or need replacement in about 3-6 mths. It's your call.
You forgot to mention Basking Stand. I use the medium size unit in my 2 feet(60x30x36cm) tank and it cost $40++.
Chlorine
Get an anti chlorine. Both my RES will squint/blink their eyes under tap water, suggests to me that they're saying it's burning them I guess. Unlike fishes, RES won't die unlike fishes in raw tap water for they breath in air. I paid $2 for Genesis by AP Anti Chlorine at C328(Clementi florist & Aquarium @ Clementi blk 328 ). The other shop in the same block sells it for $4. At it's concentration, it will last me atleast a full year.
PH? I had all 4 sucker fishes that died within 4 hours under raw tap water while the 2 RES survived, so I could safely saw it's not a big concern. You'll be more annoyed with ammonia, that you would PH.
Water Change
Could be anything from 3 days to a week for 50% change. A lot depends on your filtration and beneficial bacteria present. I'm annoyed by water that smells and that's my reason for water change. So the biggest cost should be focused on filtration.
Food
I feed with Nutrafin Basix. Pay no more than $7 for a 360g bottle that will last you almost a year perhaps. $6 for the medium 250g bottle. Get it from C328 or Nature A Aquarium(NA @ Balistier Blk 1) in balistier. Outside pet shops I've paid $8.88 for the 250g bottle. I feed once a day, total volume approx 2.5ml for both my 3" sliders. That's roughly 3-4 50 cent coin worth of volume. They will be begging throughout the day and appear forever hungry, but such is their nature. Feed no more than 5ml per day for both. Skipping for a day or two is fine.
Water level
There's approx 40 liters of water in my tank. In my 60x30x36cm tank, I've filled it to 60x30x23 cm. That is approx 2/3 filled. Most places may not fill them up any higher than 3" of water, but I've noticed that my sliders enjoy their swims. Infact it's been raised from 18cm in height of water to 23cm in height.
Filter
I started with a Fluval U3 internal filter. Cost me $85 @ Pet mart. It works, to maintain clear water. But twice weekly water change is still a chore. Filter cleaning comes in at every 2nd or 3rd week. While the water is clear, you will notice it turning into a yellowish hue when filter media becomes dirty. Otherwise fresh water appears light green with the natural greenish tint of the aquarium tank glass. The good thing is that for the current size of the sliders, the filter when mounted horizontally acts as a wet area for them to stand/rest on while being able to breath by sticking their heads out of the water surface. They either sleep this way on the filter, or on the basking stand itself. Venturi supplied with the U3 helps in aeration.
Lately I've added an external canister. After MUCH considerations, I've went with Atman DF-1300. It's china made. Paid $95 at NA. The claimed flow rate is 1500 lph. I've filled this internally with 2 liters of Eheim Substrate Pro for $48, 2x sponge(supplied), 2x wool floss(not supplied), 1L ceramic rings(supplied). It has been almost a week of running, so far I can't tell you much about water change freq at this stage. It doesn't appear that weekly is required for it hasn't smelled bad. And in any case, water should not smell bad if filtration is working optimally with sufficient BB(beneficial bacteria) doing it's work. If you see cloudy water, or smelly water, it's your filter. Slider's poo stinks only when they do their business on the dry basking stand which happened 3 times for me. It smells no better than dog/cat's business and quickly permeates the room within seconds. Otherwise they normally do their business under water and it doesn't smell the part.
You might be otherwise told that 1500lph rated filters is too much for a small 2ft tank. Honestly it doesn't cause more water turbulence than the fluval u3. There's no problems for the turtles swimming. But most importantly of all, you're the one that literally has to deal with shit. Doing it twice as frequent or not is ultimately your choice in selecting the filter. IMO, a standalone internal filter will not cut it. So if you're only gonna put up with 1 filter, get an external canister filter(I was a stubborn guy and would not listen despite reading the same advise many times). The U3 right now is no more than an expensive wet standing area to me.
Nitrogen cycle/BB
Search and read up on the Nitrogen Cycle. Buy a bottle of bacteria. You will need it occasionally. I use Sera's Nitrivec and it cost $11 @ C328. This is especially handy if you're setting up a new tank, and need to speed up the BB population or removal of ammonia smell in under 24 hours.
All in, without the UV lamps which I have not(and may not) purchase. I'm out almost $500 on my two sliders after 6-7 weeks of ownership. They live with one 11cm long normal pleco sucker fish. More than once a day I could see them doing their mating dance. They could recognize me(the feeder) than another face in front of the tank. Also just tested, they prefer to swim in my face to beg for food, than to the bottle of food held out at the other end of the tank. It's worth it when they get their priorities right.
Last edited by banana55; 10th Aug 2011 at 06:40.
I found two red ear slider at my lift void deck. They were left in a white container with a little arch bridge and a bottle of food. I saw one when I pick it up at the void deck, when I return ome, I then found the second which was hiding in the arch bridge. My simple routine is to feed them vegetables, rather than the food pelleets. If they eat food pellets, the water starts to smell very fast. if they eat vegetables, the water is cleaned for a longer time. I guess the total water change is abround three times a week. I just pour all the water away, do a quick rinse of the sliders, the container and the bridge and then put all of them back. The water is about 1 cm high so no issue with them being in the water. I guess that if I let them pick, they will grow very fast and soon then it becomes a problem to me as I have to release them or let them off to another person who can take care of them.
In Singapore actually no need all the special equipment like UV light.
If you want to keep things simple, Put a large stone or pebble in the tank or get a turtle dock if you do not have one. They like to swim so water level should be around the height of the stone of whatever resting area exposing it slightly. They need some dry area to dry out their shell.
If your tank is small, you can do as much watch change as you like. They are not sensitive to ammonia or chlorine. I keep mine for more than 10 years this way.
Please them near the window to allow it to bask when on the platform. The UV from the sun even when not direct is sufficient for them and again in SG is warm so even if you keep them far away from the window is ok. Only in cold countries heater lamps and UVB lamps are required and reason is to keep them warm so that they will not fall sick due to the cold.
I DIY a dock in a 130 L container and running a 980 L/H HOB filter. It can last me 1-2 weeks or more before each WC depending on the feeding.
Maybe will post some photo of my set up later.
So basically you need to provide them the following.
1. A resting place for them to dry their shell.
2. Lots of water for them to swim.
3. Feed a fixed amount of food only once a day. They will always look hungry and "beg" for food. Don't be tricked by them. For yours. 1 teaspoon of turtle pellet per day every morning will do. Feed too much and the water will get dirty very fast. No need to feed separately in another container.
4. If you are lazy with the water change (WC). You will need 10x the filtration and you can go 1-2 weeks before each WC. Don't be bother with the Ammonia and Chlorine, they really don't care. If using filter, dechlorination is to keep the beneficial bacteria alive in the filter but the bio load of turtle often will be too much for the bio media to handle. So I only focus on mechanical filtration to keep the water clear and have longer WC interval.
http://www.redearslider.com is a good site to learn more about your turtle.
Jeffrey
My 1st 1 FT Cube Tank \ My 2nd 2 FT Tank | My 3rd Nano Scape Tank | Shrimp Tank | 3 FT Planted Discus
The Estimative Index(EI) of Dosing
Freshwater Algae Types: An Illustrated Guide
Wow!! Very good advice there guys! Many thanks!!! Would be great if some of you could share pictures of what you have & how you have set up your tank.
Although I must say, some of the terms are overwhelming to me at this point
Filters: I bought a cheap $15 filter, but after 2 days. I don't think it is going to cut it
Food/Nutrition: Think I will supplement their turtle pellet diet (Nutrafin Basix) with a weekly treat of raw shrimp. Currently feeding each of the 2 inch RES with about 10 Nutrafin Basix pellets a day. Is this too little? They seem ever so hungry!! What about additional nutrients? Calcium? Where do they get that from? banana55 & jeffteo: the quantities of food in your post -- is that for 1 RES or 2 RESes?
Basking: Got them some rocks to climb on to dry themselves for now. Just ordered a "Exo Terra Solar Glo (160W)" & "Exo Terra Porcelain Clamp Reflector (Large)". But jeffteo was mentioning that UV lamps are optional in SG? Now, I am getting a bit confused by the mixed advice I am reading online -- where it is mentioned that UVB is obtained from direct sunlight. UVB would have been filtered in indirect sunlight (e.g. through glass windows) because UVB is harmful to humans & therefore our glass windows have substances added to them to filter out UVB.
Sleeping: Do they sleep in the water with their noses poking out of the water? Mine seem to be doing that -- I can't be 100% sure. Very long ago, I had a rather big RES which kept wanting to hide under a shelter every night. So, I am curious how do your RESes' sleep? Do they climb out of water & sleep on a perch?
Just read an interesting guideline (http://www.redearslider.com/pellets.html#x) -- to use the RES' head as a guide to how much pellets to feed. But, I am also curious as to how old my RESes are. They are about 2 inches from top to bottom of the shell (exclude head and tail). Because if they are under 1 year old, then don't want to underfeed them.
Also, I noticed one of them feeds more aggressively than the other one. Is it a case that the other one is 'not hungry'? Though it does seem kind of rare... for them to refuse food. Do any of you face such a problem? Should I separate both of them for individual feeding -- to ensure one does not overeat and the other does not undereat?
Last edited by nyxx88; 10th Aug 2011 at 23:43.
Do no only feed them vegetables or bread, they need the calcium in the pellets for the shell to grow properly. Pellets meant for turtle will have the necessary nutrient. The turtle shell will cave in if they did not get enough calcium. For the last 10 years I only feed them Aquari Turtle delights and now the oldest is the size of a face. I switch to those cheaper brand only this year which is more economical as they are eating a lot now.
The quantities I've quoted is for BOTH turtles. I do not feed separately. 2.5ml is approx 40 Nutrafin Basix pellets. So each should receive 20 sticks a day if I feed all at one go. Otherwise, I may split into 2-3 feedings throughout the day for approx 20 pellets each time. My RES are between 2.5" to 3", perhaps a little older than the ones you have? I have experimented with feeding quantities and it's mostly tapering down, rather than increasing, they used to get more food when I started this.
I observe their eating habits to gauge their true levels of hunger. Examples are like whether they continue to feed on the crumbs at the bottom once there are no more floating pellets. Whether after each bite, do they spit out a cloud of pellet dust as they chew. Whether they consume a full pellet at a go, or split them up. From what I see, when they are really hungry, half the time they eat one whole pellet in a mouthful without spitting out food dust and quickly move on to the next. After there's no more pellets, they will proceed to bottom feed on the crumbs. If they are just greedy, they give up bottom feeding and spits out lots of food dust as they chew, like kids playing with their food.
Calcium comes in food supplements form or from UV light. Every fortnight, I drop a calcium pill that was meant for human consumption. They usually end up consuming at least half a tablet while the other half gets dissolved in water rather quickly. I've tried mixing the crushed calcium pill into powder form and mixing this with the pellets, but I found that most of the calcium powder gets dissolved in water rather than sticking onto the pellets.
As for the lighting, there are 2 parts to this. The UV part, and the HEAT part. Natural sunlight has UV rays, and most glass or polycarbonates filter out UV rays since it's harmful for humans. Turtles use UV for calcium and vitamin D3 production. As for HEAT, Singapore's temperature is about what people in seasonal climates calibrate their water heaters and heating lamps to. So essentially, the HEAT producing factor in your basking lamp is of little necessity here. Some people use an individual UV bulb and Heat bulb separately in 2 lamps. There are bulbs which product BOTH and comes in incandescent form. And like what I suggested, the compact UV bulbs are the energy saving form that produces UV but with little heat factor. So you save substantially on the electrical costs, and replacement cost since incandescent do not last for long. If you really want a heating lamp, just put in a regular 100W incandescent alongside the UV lamp.
So heat lamps are really very optional here in SG. UV lamps becomes optional if you take them out of their tanks, or place the tank somewhere where they receive unfiltered sunlight, even non-direct.
Go get a turtle dock aka basking stand. They need to dry themselves, and this is where you should point the UV and/or Heat lamps.
Both my sliders sleep in both wet and dry conditions, depending on their preference. I've seen them sleep on the dry basking stand, and they've slept on top of the internal filter where they could stick their heads out to breathe without moving their body. One of them even found a way to sleep vertically standing up like a human with his lower shell at the tail portion resting on the internal filter's grooves and his upper half sticking out with his face on the glass panel.
Yes, feeding them the size of their Heads, without the neck is a guide, and a rather loose one. Size wise, I'm guessing both yours and mine are about a year old or there abouts.Originally Posted by nyxx88
Just read an interesting guideline (http://www.redearslider.com/pellets.html#x) -- to use the RES' head as a guide to how much pellets to feed
Also, I noticed one of them feeds more aggressively than the other one. Is it a case that the other one is 'not hungry'? Though it does seem kind of rare... for them to refuse food. Do any of you face such a problem? Should I separate both of them for individual feeding -- to ensure one does not overeat and the other does not undereat?
Both my sliders have their own distinct eating habits. One may end up consuming less than the other, such phenomena may flip around after a couple of days, but they have not resist attempting to eat, albeit slower or appear to play with their food. Once, I bought them live feeder fishes which they took about 3 days to clear up 50 mini molly's. By the 2nd day, I saw one slider puke out twice the same fish he swallowed. I'm guessing he was filled to the brim, but he never gave up, and he was the slower eater to begin with. I took both out to quarantine them for 12 hours.
It's nature's way that nothing is fair nor equal. So I will not make it a point to ensure they receive equal portions. I've tried that a few times to be fair, but it quickly hits me that equality is a futile effort.
Ah... ok. That sounds assuring -- that they do not necessarily have the same eating habits/eat the same amount. I was worried one might be sick or something
And if you are feeding about 20 pellets per RES a day, then I am grossly underfeeding!! They get about 5 to 6 a day now. Looks like I will need to feed them more when I get back tonight.
Do any of your RESes exhibit the following behavior?
- Aggressiveness towards another RES -- biting the tail, etc.
- Trying to 'scratch' itself against rocks?
I've only once seen one RES bite the other's neck and a small scuffle broke out with another 2 further exchanges of neck biting each during feeding when both RES went for the same pellet. No injuries nor blood was seen though. It also never happened in the past nor did I witness the same after that isolated incident.
One of my two sliders also likes to bite his own hand when coming up onto the dry basking stand. This happens because he's shedding skin and it seems to irritate him only when he comes out of the water. The nail scratching onto the basking stand makes some scratch noise as he bites his own hand.
Other than what I've mentioned, they do not otherwise fight nor show aggression. Only playful wrestling like action, ie. digging underneath or climbing over a standing slider. I see them doing their mating dance at least once daily. I'm guessing that your sliders are trying to show exercise territorial domination over the other in a new environment or setup?
Hmm... environment is DEFINITELY new, less than 1 week old. And the biting was done by a bigger slider -- during feeding. Guess that explains the aggression. But it seems to 'like' bumping into the smaller slider when climbing up to bask. Hope it is temporary. Again, similar to yours -- no blood was seen on the bitten arm or tail.
The bigger slider also keeps going up against the rocks to 'scratch' itself against them -- looks like the shell part being scratched though. Couldn't figure out this action yet. *shrugs*
Mating? How soon/old/big do they need to be before they mate? How would I know if it is mating dance?
I've read some advise that mixing big and young sliders together may result in territorial aggressions, but that I'm taking it like a 3 yr old adult vs say a 3 mth old hatchling. One of my sliders is slightly larger, by 15% and I'm speculating that it's growing to become a female? Are your sliders scratching it's shell or skin on the rocks? While walking on the basking area, some noise could be heard they their lower shell scratches the basking surface, like a car's undercarriage scratching against a road hump. But if it was scratching his own skin, like the arms/legs/neck, it may be due to the slider irritated by his shedding skin. You can tell that it's shedding when under water, the skin surface appears like a light layer of cotton, or when you see floating skin on the water surface. A light layer of cotton look is also associated with fungus infection, but for this, it should look identical when out of water, whereas skin shedding appears only this way when in water but looks normal on dry surfaces.
Actual mating wise, I'm guessing from 3 years onwards when they are adults. But young sliders do practice the mating dance(even if they are of the same gender) which is the courtship ritual before actual mating. They will face each other(almost kissing) with their hands beside their head, their fingers will wriggle in pulses. The way the fingers move actually tickles a laughter out of me. You can see an example here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9e2iwM2qP8 or youtube "turtle mating dance" and you can see more of the same examples.
1. My 2 sliders are very close in size, probably close to approx 7-10% difference in size? Hmm... so the gurls are bigger huh? :P
2. So far, doesn't seem like fungal infection. So, I guess that is good. But looks like I have to pay closer attention. Only the bigger one is scratching its shell (not skin) - the side of the carapace I think. It only started yesterday, will have to observe tonight to see if it continues.
3. What? You can even find RES mating on YouTube??? LMAO!!! Ok, will check those out when I get home.
Yes female are larger than males in adulthood. So this difference has to begin somewhere as they grow up together, so the growing difference in size led me to speculate if one is more likely to become a female. Haha!
I've read that they do shed their shell, called scutes? No first hand experience here, so couldn't comment further on the behaviour during it's progress.
Yes, when I first saw my sliders doing it, I didn't know what this act was. So with a little research and I found out it was called the mating dance and the youtube videos confirmed exactly what I see them do now on frequent basis. Half the time now, one initiates, but the other isn't interested. Still, it's easy to see both doing it to each other once a day when they have no distractions.
Dont mate unless you intend to take care of the offspring. I have two terrapin,they are alwayd lack of vitamin A. But I fed them vegetable but they ignored,what should I do?
Restarting this hobby.
Dang!! If they ACTUALLY do mate, need to find a place for her to lay eggs. Was reading at some other forum that the female will get edge -- scrape against the glass tank, etc. when she is about to lay eggs. Should've kept that link
Will try to read up about the 'scutes' thing then.
chumzhujun: The sliders themselves are cheap. Go read banana55's EXCELLENT post above about potential costs & other aspects (http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...765#post606765). Since you found this thread, would be good that you read from the beginning of the discussion to figure out what has been discussed, instead of jumping in the middle and repeat the questions.
I can feel the rocks & sides of my slider tank getting slimy
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