Possible to achieve such a tank without CO2 and cool temperatures?

[copperband]

Hi guys,

I've just obtained a bonsai driftwood from Midori and have an intention to recreate a landscape like this pic attached.

I wish to just keep exclusively sakura shrimps inside and want to have some advice whether it would be possible to achieve such a landscape without the use of CO2 tanks and chillers?

What sort of filters should I utilize in such a setup? Should I aim to use a filter that does not disturb the surface of the water? Should I use a surface skimmer?

What sort of plants should I use to tie of the bonsai and for the lawn as well?
I was thinking of Xmas moss for the bonsai and US fissidens for the lawn.

I have been reading as much information as I could gather and I am getting EXTREMELY confused now.
I am a beginner in plants and would appreciate as much advise as I can in accomplishing this task.

Thanks and Regards

[Peanut8787]

Well from my point of view. I would definitely go for CO2 as the foreground HC does need CO2 to grow well. And for the moss, using chiller for lower temperature will bring the moss out to the fullest.

For filter wise, it's up to individual as some people go for canister and some don't. Surface skimmer is not a must equipment but it does suck up all the surface dirt and prevent having a oily film on the surface.

For the plant on the bonsai, i would go for willow moss as it really gives a low feel but bear in mind, you need to shape out the tree scape.

What you see may be just a foreground and a tree with moss, but you wouldn't know what sort of hard work does it take for the scaper to achieve that.

Good luck and welcome to the dark arena.

[Shadow]

first of all how big is your tank? that will tell you what kind of filter you need to use or good to use.

I would suggest to use CO2, that would solve lots of thing. Chiller is good to have but at least get a fan.

[copperband]

Hi Peanut and Shadow,

My intended tank for setup would be a 2ftx1x1 tank. Just aiming for a lush lawn with plants like fissidens and mosses on tree branches. Nothing really complicated I hope?

Filtration wise, I was thinking of a hang on canister filter I saw in Nanyang, with the rain bar directed against the glass so as not to disturb the surface of the water. Would this be sufficient?


On chillers.. As I intend to setup this tank in my room, I don't intend to have a chiller running.
*I own a 1/2 HP chiller for my reef tank and I know how noisy as well as the amount of hot air it generates it can get.

Although I know that CO2 is good for plantkeeping in the long run, I've been really inspired by Diana Walstad and Tom Barr's methods of maintaining a low tech setup.
This is why I'm trying to aim for something low tech as well.

I understand that alot of work has gone into perfecting this setup in the pic.
Which is why I hope that some advanced plant keepers here could give me some sound advice whether it would be possible to attempt this.

[Peanut8787]

I would say that canister is definitely not enough for your 2x1x1ft tank. You will need water movement around the tank, maybe you can try get a slightly bigger canister rather then those hang on type?

[Shadow]

1/2hp is over kill for 2ft tank . Compressor chiller may not be suitable for room setup due to noise but you can try the peltier based chiller, only fan noise. Anyway you should be able to get temperature hovering around 28-29 with simple fan. It should be OK with your moss and fissiden. I would suggest to use spiky moss. It can grow quite well even without CO2 injection but it will be slow . but since you have a reef tank, you should already get use to the slow coral grow

Since 2ft tank, I would recommend Eheim (my fav brand ) maybe 2213 or 2215 if you are thinking connecting it to chiller in the future. I like canister filter due to its flexibility but the owner of this tank, Filipe Oliveira, is just using hang on back filter. See picture below with he equipment intact. Photo taken from his blog

Anyway, yes it is possible.

[copperband]

Thanks for the kind replies.

A 1/2hp chiller for my 2ft tank?? No way!! I don't ever intend to use a chiller for this new setup. Maybe a fan... but I'm hesitant because of the noise it generates as well.

Using a 2213 or 2215... I could consider that as well.
However, when I was checking out Amano's setups.. his tank were very serene, with no water surface movement. This is why I question whether I should aim for a filter that does not disturb the water surface.
Like having a rain bar directed against the tank wall to maintain a still water surface, and a surface skimmer at the other end of the tank.

[Shadow]

Thats only during photo shoot. Like it or not the surface movement sure be there since Amano is using lily pipe. One of the reason I like canister filter

[Peanut8787]

Since 2ft tank, I would recommend Eheim (my fav brand ) maybe 2213 or 2215 if you are thinking connecting it to chiller in the future. I like canister filter due to its flexibility but the owner of this tank, Filipe Oliveira, is just using hang on back filter. See picture below with he equipment intact. Photo taken from his blog

Anyway, yes it is possible.

Suggestion ; Canister must go with Ada Lily pipe or Ada knockoff also will do, Ada beetle diffuser or Up inline atomizer, Cal Co2 dropper, then MH lighting, T5 lighting.

And there goes the starting of the expensive so call "hobby". Hehe

[copperband]

Thats only during photo shoot. Like it or not the surface movement sure be there since Amano is using lily pipe. One of the reason I like canister filter

Sorry, but I don't really understand the sentence.. would you mind further elaborating?

So using a lily pipe means that water surface movement has to be there? You prefer canister because of the surface movement?

Apologies for my questions. I'm getting more confused each day as I read more articles.

[copperband]

Suggestion ; Canister must go with Ada Lily pipe or Ada knockoff also will do, Ada beetle diffuser or Up inline atomizer, Cal Co2 dropper, then MH lighting, T5 lighting.

And there goes the starting of the expensive so call "hobby". Haha

Thanks for the suggestions Peanut.. but I've done that all for my reef tank and I DEFINITELY do not wish to go that high tech route ever again.

2x250 SE MHs supplemented with 4 T5 bulbs, chiller, calcium reactor, oversized protein skimmers...

For this tank setup, I just wish to make it as low tech as possible, let the plants SLOWLY grow without me meddling and fiddling, trimming and all that very much...
I just hope to enjoy the tank when I come home from work..

[Peanut8787]

Thanks for the suggestions Peanut.. but I've done that all for my reef tank and I DEFINITELY do not wish to go that high tech route ever again.

2x250 SE MHs supplemented with 4 T5 bulbs, chiller, calcium reactor, oversized protein skimmers...

For this tank setup, I just wish to make it as low tech as possible, let the plants SLOWLY grow without me meddling and fiddling, trimming and all that very much...
I just hope to enjoy the tank when I come home from work..

Maybe I should learn some reef tank setup from you. Shall PM you.

[Shadow]

sorry..

The Amano work you see from the book, magazine or photo on the net is special. All the equipment are purposely removed from the tank. You wont be able to see any water movement unless it purposely introduce using hair dryer.

Below are some picture of lily pipe from Google, easier to explain using picture . See the small vortex on the first picture, that the effect that you can't run away from using lily pipe. It will generate ripple on the water surface. The vortex was also good in reducing the surface protein, that normally happen in planted tank.

The second picture if what happen if the water level fall below the lily pipe outlet.

[copperband]

Shadow.

That looks SO COOL! is that an alternative to a surface skimmer????

What do I need to order to setup this lily pipe? I've searched the ADA site, but it doesn't give me much info.

[Shadow]

If you have the money you can get ADA, if not you can get the other brand like ANS, Borneo Wild and CAL Aqua lab. I do not know the ANS web site though. Only work if you have canister filter. Also they come in different diameter. Make sure you bought the same diameter as your filter hose.

ADA lily pipe (you should be able to get it from NA)
http://www.adana.co.jp/en/products/na_filter/lily_pipe/

CAL Aqua Lab lily pipe
http://www.calaqualabs.com/Fluxus.html

[Peanut8787]

For those cheaper knockoff brand like ANS. You can get it from Y618 or C328. Should be around $60-$80 depending on the sizes you need.

[copperband]

oh my... That is a little pricey.

Sorry, can you enlighten me whther that lily pipe you shown to me in those pics are for inflow or outflow?
I don't get this inflow/outflow thing. Most lily pipes were built for water to flow out to the aquarium.

If thats the case, how does the vortex occur?

[Shadow]

The one that create the vortex is the outflow. You can see the inflow on the second picture behind the outflow. Normally you will buy both in and out flow. Otherwise it wont look that nice one glass one green color tube like in the first picture.

Yeah quite ex, probably because it hand made not factory mold.

[P0633318]

For the moss definitely not a problem. Just that the moss will be bigger and not as small and tight as those with co2. But as for the foreground hc I think it's better to use a co2.

I tried moss without co2 before and with 3 months my tank is being filled up by the moss.