Growing Tonina...How to?

[eric_kclee]

Hi everyone,
I have been growing many types of plant and it is quite OK (successful will be an over statement)

I have also tried many types of Tonina, but nothing works...
1. Tonina -Regular.
2. Tonina -fine leaves.
3. Tonina -Broad leaves.

All of them survive less than 4 weeks. All rots starting from the bottom up, leaves turn brown and melted, start from bottom till the top until it finally died.

I have done some search on the web but not much can be found. Learned that it has special needs like, Low PH (6.5PH), Low KH (2dh), High Light (>3W/G), Low water temperature (25C), and also need special kind of substrate? (detail unknown to me). Also heard and saw people with better success in using AQUA soil (acidic).

Does anyone has good success in growing Tonina? Appreciate if anyone can share the tips and trick in growing Tonina..

Regular stuff like = PH, KH, Light level?
Special tips on...Substrate, base fertiliser, Nutrient liking or dosage.. and any other special tricks/tips..

Thanks

PS:
when you try to post a long thread, please avoid pressing the 'escape' key...it will erase all your typing...is that a source code bug??

[Daz]

Hi Eric, I have started on Tonina SP and Broad leave type for maybe 5 weeks or 6 weeks. And this is what I notice.

My Tonina Broad leave are doing very well. within 4 weeks, they grow a further 1/2ft. Thus I need to cut off the top and replant. But the lower section look pretty awful cause the furry roots are all over the stem. BUT, new shoots are slow to re-produce as compared to Tonina SP.

As for Tonina SP, I got 4 stall only from Teo. But 3 have baby shoots already when I got them. Out of the 3, 2 of them have yellowing problem at the top after a month, I suspect it is because the plant have reach it's mature height (where the top is much more flat compare to those who are still growing with a more 'spikey' looking top). The last one is doing very well right now, spikey top and have a new shoot which just come out not too long. Other then the yellowing top problem, they seems fine to me.

I cannot tell you my water parameters simply because I do not have any test kit. I am those lazy bugger who just try to plant plants, can grow good, cannot grow too bad type. Lights are 72W for 20G tanks, CO2 = 1.5 bubbles per sec. Daily 5 drop of Lushgro Aqua.

[eric_kclee]

Daz,
A beautiful plant huh?
What is the make up of your substrate? Base fertiliser?
Thanks

[marle]

how much do u buy for a pot of tonina sp? or any tonina species?

does teo aquatic plant supplier supplys alot of plants?

[eric_kclee]

normal LFS price 6stalks for $8

Some sell $8 for 1 stalk, crazy.

[PohSan]

I started tonina 2 to 3 weeks ago. Got my plants from Nicky. Basically 5 type of plants in my tank, namely:
Eracaulon sp,
broad leave tonina (Tonina fluviatelis),
tonina sp from Belem,
Eriocaulaceae sp and
Ludwigia sp

So far only the leave at bottom part of broad leave tonina turns blown but I believe the situation will be better when the plant is mature in my tank.

Besides, my tonina sp starts to bubble on the third day and Ludwigia sp has grow by at one inches.

There is my tank parameter:
1) Tank size : 2ft
2) Substrate : 100% Seachem flourite
3) Light : one Aracadia FL tube, one OSRAM PL tube. (total 51W, around 3.6W per Gallon)
4) Co2 : DIY type using Denerela flipper.
5) Temp : 28 ~ 29 (fan cooling)
6) one OTO and several yamato and cherry shrimp ( although some people discourage shrimp in tonina tank

[Alfa Low]

Growing Tonina sp is a breeze once you use clay-based substrate such as Nisso Volcanic Soil, ADA aquasoil etc especially Amazonia aquasoil . Go and try it, no regret!

[Daz]

Eric, my sustrate is about 1 1/2 inch cocopeat and 1/2 inch black gravel. 10 pcs of monster root inserted evenly at the base.

I think the tonina take the nutrients from the water column more (educated guess since the roots are exposed).

I got 8 stalk from Teo at $10. cheap? dun know. since there already just buy lor.

[eric_kclee]

----------------
On 11/6/2003 6:06:20 PM

Growing Tonina sp is a breeze once you use clay-based substrate such as Nisso Volcanic Soil, ADA aquasoil etc especially Amazonia aquasoil . Go and try it, no regret!
----------------

Alfa Low,
May I know what is the reason behind....I mean the chemistry or mechanism. Is it because the substrate is more coarse and better for water circulation or is it because of acidity...

Daz,
Thanks, I have noted down...lets see if I can get any more inputs.....

[Nicky]

I use seachem flourite laced with peat at the bottom. My tonina grows like wild-fire..
Want to buy can pm me, haha.. hope Eric don't kill me for stealing his thread.

[eric_kclee]

I told you guys.....

The secret lies within the substrate....
Bad..bad..boy... Nicky, didn't share your secret fully....

I guess the common thing between Aqua soil and Peat base is the acidity and the good water circulation under gravel.

Anymore tips?

[eric_kclee]

----------------
On 11/6/2003 7:12:10 PM

Eric, my sustrate is about 1 1/2 inch cocopeat and 1/2 inch black gravel. 10 pcs of monster root inserted evenly at the base.

---------------

Daz,
Why you put cocopeat in the first place? you didn't plan it for Tonina right? then why you add Cocopeat during setup?

May I ask more detail?
1. Cocopeat means the husk from teh coconut right?
2. Other than from Dr Mallick, where else can buy?
3. Is cocopeat same as Nicky's peat?
4. What good does it(peat) bring to the plant in general?

Appreciate you info..

[Sleepy_lancs]

I wonder. It seems to me that Tonina sp seems to do well in temperature of 20 - 30C and can survive with PH 4 - 7 although it prefers to have a sandy bottom mixed with peat (likes acidic water I guess). Mine died after 3 weeks []

[eric_kclee]

Sleepy,
Actually AlfaLow has drop some very important hints....Look at the links that he provided at the end of the message....

These are Taiwnese and HK sites...you will be supprise that there are so many types of Tonina Sp (if you are as ignorant as me)....And they even have a forum on how to grow specifically on Tonina.

Thanks Alfa.


Alfa,
In their forum they always mentioned(in chinese) using substrate like 'Holland Gravel' and 'Mei Xing Sha'...what is it in English? does it mean Flourite???

[Simon]

i think gravel isn't the major factor in going tonina rather it is the water condition and fertilization.. i believe there are many of us who can grow tonina on normal/non volcanic gravel, right Alfa?

[eric_kclee]

----------------
On 11/7/2003 9:20:26 AM

i think gravel isn't the major factor in going tonina rather it is the water condition and fertilization
----------------

Thats why I need advice.....
Finally someone stress on the water condition and fertilisation...Thanks Simon.

When you say 'water condition' does it mean normal gravel is OK as long as the KH <2dh, PH <6.5, GH?....

Can you advice if there is any SPECIAL fertilisation for Tonina? Is it just generally well balanced nutrients or it need something special?

Thanks

[Simon]

Eric,

pH of below 6.8 and kH of 4 works well.. including regular fertilization.

I personally kept and grew tonina, 2 species of Eriocaulaceae sp on dennerle and lonestar (the best thing is I can conclude that strong light isnt a factor as those in my 6ft was at 2watts per gallon)

my weekly fertilization regime involves TMG and 20-30ppm K2SO4, 10ppm KNO3

[PeterGwee]

Anything more than light, CO2 and nutrients does not grow plants... Peat does help in the initial rooting of plants but is best placed at the very bottom of a substrate as the effect can throw the pH/KH/CO2 out of whack.

[bclee]

I think pH does affect nutrients uptake. I am not sure if it is true for Tonina sp., some plants do better in acidic condition while others may not be so pH specific.

Generally, I think pH 5-6+ enhances most nutrient uptake.

BC

[geoffrey]

You may want push your CO2 abit higher to get a lower pH without having to resort to peat. That is what I'm doing now with my Tonina, planted since Deevapali. First time for me. 2 stands given to me free and now I have 4 more decent shoots that is about 2 inches now. Still to early to know if I will succeed or not though. I noticed it should not be shaded too.