Growing Tonina...How to?

[eric_kclee]

Sorry, please advice what is Lapis Gravel?

[gchoo]

Lonestar is just normal gravel which you can buy anywhere for $22 per 22kg bag lor...

[neon]

Talking about water circulating inside substrate/gravel, AZOO gravel filteration system = special pipe and active soil (very costly) claims it sucks the water down and through the active soil to promote water flow underneath. Inside the zic zac pipe has many tiny holes to suck the water, on the other end you can use a power head . They recommend they filter , suck the water and filter immediately.

This information I got personally from the AZOO taiwanese promoter whom I met on the MRT train.

Anyone had tried this product ?

[eric_kclee]

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On 11/8/2003 8:59:05 PM
I think you focus on the water parameters suggested by the Bros here, you will notice that the plant will stop melting and thrive...
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Choo, understand what you mean....what I am trying to say is....

I understand that there are people who can grow Tonina well with just normal gravel and not ADA or Peat. Maybe that need alot of precision control.

What I am trying to stress is that...With ADA soil or Peat base, it make growing Tonina 'a piece of cake'....even beginner also can handle them.

For example....
I am growing...Banana, Red Barclaya, Green Barclaya, mini ricia, xmoss, erect moss, japonica, cinereum, hair grass, 4color, queen of Siam, Lobelia, Crypt Parva, erect moss....all grow very well without any sign of Algae (don't say I am 'how lian' huh, just for illustration)...

But when I put in Tonina, it just can't survive more than 4weeks...it will melt from bottom and die eventually...

When I visited 3 web site in TW and HK (thanks to AlfaLow)...My eyes really open up....99.9% of those Tonina fan use peat or ADA base...and look at their tank...WoW!......

In conclusion, I am just a regular planter and I can't grow Tonina well by just controling the parameter...I need tricks, booster, enzyme to made growing Tonina easier...

It is just like someone using chiller to grow xmoss...It help in growing moss easier and nicer....But is it neccessary?...I believe it is not at all.

[BFG]

KingFisher, mine is nearly 3 inch at the back and slope down to 2 inch in front.

I had ZERO success using Lonestar gravel with base fert for Tonina. But because I liked the plants more than the state of my tank then, I decided to rescape my 3ft tank during my annual leave. Honestly, I have good results using ADA aquasoil growing tonina. From the 10 that I've bought, I have nearly covered the whole of my 3ft with tonina!. I had also planted a dying red lotus which had only 1 leaf left and it looks to be on the verge of melting. After a few weeks, this red lotus had grown and is producing more leaves, without me adding any Root Monster.

The only plant that failed me with using ADA aquasoil is the humble Egeria Densa. It had melted in my tank.

[eric_kclee]

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On 11/8/2003 11:22:13 AM
anyone got any recommendation on tonina book or magazine or site (beside http://www.tonina-forest.net) . I hope to find this futher reading material for reference.
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Pohsan,
Look for AlfaLow post in this thread...under his signature, there are 3 links all about Tonina...Their forumer TANK are just AMAZINGLY BEAUTIFUL!...agree?

All about using ADA and Peat base!

[Kingfisher]

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On 11/8/2003 10:25:17 PM

KingFisher, mine is nearly 3 inch at the back and slope down to 2 inch in front.

I had ZERO success using Lonestar gravel with base fert for Tonina. But because I liked the plants more than the state of my tank then, I decided to rescape my 3ft tank during my annual leave. Honestly, I have good results using ADA aquasoil growing tonina. From the 10 that I've bought, I have nearly covered the whole of my 3ft with tonina!. I had also planted a dying red lotus which had only 1 leaf left and it looks to be on the verge of melting. After a few weeks, this red lotus had grown and is producing more leaves, without me adding any Root Monster.

The only plant that failed me with using ADA aquasoil is the humble Egeria Densa. It had melted in my tank.
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Thanks for the reply, now I can roughly estimate that I need at least 3 pack base fertilizer and ADA soil. Tomorrow going to starting buying the stuffs and next weekends, the plants themselves.

[PohSan]

Eric, thank alot. Will check out the site.

[PohSan]

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On 11/8/2003 11:07:05 AM

The plant I got it from Nicky is healthy (thank nicky!) and has grow to a length that require pruning. However, how shall I prune the plant? Any advice on how to prune the tonina? Thanks.
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Any one? think I made a mistake of cutting away the tonina head. One method is to unroot, cut away botton and replant again. Is this correct?

[Nicky]

Cut them like you would for normal stem plants. If you leave the cut-stalk behind, shoots will grow from the side and very soon you can start a farm and quit your day-job, haha..

[bluezing]

i tink thats what nicky's job is now.lol!!

[eric_kclee]

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On 11/9/2003 11:26:40 AM

i tink thats what nicky's job is now.lol!!
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Very soon Nicky will be selling another new Tonina Species... He just added one new member to his Tonina Family...

[bclee]

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On 11/8/2003 11:06:35 AM

Taking results from experiements done on terrestrial plants and applying them on aquatic plants?

This is what Tom Barr mention and I think his studies and knowledge on plants is far more than most of us...

"Now I will argue over anyone that claims generally that plants need soft acidic waters.
This is old dogma and myth.

Plants want 3 things: CO2, light and nutrients.
If it's not one of those, it's not going to grow them.

If you'd like to see a tank I did with KH of 10, GH of 24, I can email it to you or someone else can host the image etc. My present tap has GH of 5 and KH of 3, I see no difference in my routines or my plants.

This is myth that plants need this or a certain KH or GH. Anything above 3 degrees or so is good for either for the plants but there is no really high end I'm aware of beyond some freaky well waters. Few tap waters have a GH/KH of 25.

KH simply relate to the pH/KH relationship for the CO2 levels.

Since you have CO2, simply add that to achieve a pH of 7.4 and that's all there is to that.

Bonsai/wasting away is classic CO2 deficiency.
I have grown over 250 species of plants, it has nothing to do with hard of soft water.
It has everything to do with light, CO2 and nutrients."

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Yes I agree that Tom has vast knowledge and experience in plant science. Actually, many times I have been trying to ask about the science behind Tom's obsevervation, but many time I do not seem to get one.

Yes, it is known that pH affects terresterial plants' uptake of nutrients especially in alkali conditions. What make aquatic plant different from terresterial plants? I need to know the reason.

I just cannot bring myself to take in someone's theory without knowing the science that supports it.

Actually, some of my observations seems to be in contrary of what it was said to be. High KH seemed to stifle the growth of some plants, especially those that cannot utilise HCO3- as a carbon source. Tonina sp may be one of them... but my observations/knowledge is not enough to make a conclusion as yet.

Peter, if you know the science, maybe you should share it with us. I will be very happy...

BC

[PohSan]

For someone that is saying that Tonina is hard to grow, mine is growing quite fine, especially Ludwigia Sp which grows among twice the length and the stem is much thicker than when I initially planted them. I think much of the credit actually goes to the Seachem florite substrate which I am using.

However, most of the tip of tonina leave turns to brown in colour, so does some of the tonina head. I suspected that it is does to the yamato and cherry shrimp that is eating them. Despite of that, I did noticed new shoot coming out of the stem of the tonina.

The bottom of the broad leave tonina (tonina fluviatelis) starts to turns brown and melt away. I think it is because of the light is been blocked by the normal tonina and Eracaulon SP. The top part of the stem is growing taller and quite well.

Talking of the roots, my Ludwigia sp has strong and red root. And there is root coming out from the stem of the normal tonina sp. However those tonina roots are covered with fur which I am not sure it the fur belong to the root or it is actually algae. Can anyone advise on that? I don't actually feed my shrimp and Oto but they don't clean up the fur, instead they are more interested on the tonina leave.

Finally, I might be doing some pruning on my plant so those who are interested and don't mind the brown tip of the tonina, please PM me. Sorry I will only give away tonina sp, narrow leave tonina and Eracaulon SP, no Ludwigia Sp at the moment. The amount is quite little but will be enough for those who wanted to try on tonina first. Meeting place can be at Petmart and nearby.