Black Arrow angels

[Rod]

Hi...



IMG_4505.jpgthese are being sold in Australia as Black Arrow Angels.....and it is claimed they are a genetic mutation....not cosmetic surgery

I would be interested to see images of ANY fish (parents with fry) that show this sort of genetic variation

Just seems to me this is a surgically altered animal.....

[gonjinn]

Angelfish without tail fin! Looks like a serious defect to me.

[Ethan Pak]

I personally wouldn't encourage any genetic modification to angels. They did that to flowerhorn and see how the fish turn out ... Angels look terrible without their majestic finnage.

[gonjinn]

I agree with Ethan. I cannot speak for the rest but personally these so called "black arrow angels" look ugly to me.

[Rod]

I agree they are ugly.....I'd never buy them
My concern is they have had their tails removed with a knife!

[gonjinn]

I doubt they have their tail surgically removed because it is unlikely to survive such a surgery. These angels are probably born with the defect of missing tail and they breed them selectively with the intention to create a market with these "new type of angels". In the world of fresh water angelfish, one of the most serious defect is notched deformity. You can read more about it in Dr. Norton Articles 18:

http://theangelfishsociety.org/articles/norton/dr_norton(1.htm

[Rod]

It seems this type of operation is done on several species
Parrot cichilds(heart parrots)
Flowerhorns
Convicts
Discus
Arrowana
Can't see why angels couldn't survive the same treatment
I've seen the article on notched angels....they all have tails?

[gonjinn]

The pictures attached in the article give us an idea how notched deformity can happen on different parts of an angelfish. So there are possibilities of having a notched or more on it's tail. By selective breeding, they pass the notched gene to future generations. Since I do not know the breeder of black arrow angels, there is no way I can confirm how they were being bred, operated or mutated. Yes, I have seen parrot fish without tail, also known as heart shape parrot fish here in Singapore. Taking a 2nd look at the black arrow angels, I notice the gap between the dorsal and anal fin is way too small if it was born with a tail. In a normal angelfish, the tail fin and anal generally do not overlap but if they do, it wont be much.

[Rod]

I have been unable to locate any images of any fish missing a tail surrounded by fry that also are missing their tail???

The heart shape I believe is caused by removing the caudal with a triangular cut then allowing those parts to grow together .....hence a small gap between the dorsal and anal fins

With the "notched" deformity it seem fish have a almost normal body shape and look like a piece has been bitten out of them then they have healed
I have not seen any images where fish have lost their tail or caudal peduncle(i.e. part of the spine near tail).....only parts of other fins

I don't believe these have a "notched deformity" or there would still be a normal separation of dorsal and tail....these have had the tail amputated with part of the caudal peduncle and then separated parts have grown together.....therefore no or little gap between dorsal and anal fin and the area that has grown together is thinner than surrounding tissue....giving the heart shape!

[gonjinn]

I have not seen any photos of angelfish tail fin being surgically removed just as you have not seen angelfish fry with a missing tail fin. I can understand where you are coming from. I honestly hope that is not the case or it will be extremely cruel to do that to angelfish.

[gonjinn]

I did some googling on cosmetic surgery on fish and I have extracted a paragraph on heart shape parrot fish from a URL for sharing. The words highlighted in Red shows that there exist heart shape parrot fish which does breeds tail-less offsprings.

"I, myself, have attested that tail-lessness may have been a result of genetics. This what I had to say:

I don't think these fishes are mutilated, that their tails are cut at a very young age... I've seen heart-shaped FlowerHorns at a LFS nearby, and from my point of view, their "tail-lessness" is very much similar to the structure of heart shaped parrot fishes.

Mind you, I've had dwarf albino heart-shaped parrot fishes in the past, which I bought from a LFS I trust. At 1", they are already able to produce offspring. Their offspring are tail-less like their parents. If the parents' tails are cut in the first place, "tail-lessness" may not be passed on to them, right? I raised the fry, and they grew up tail-less, as expected genetically, not because I cut the tails off.

Maybe heart-shaped FlowerHorns, on the other hand, are produced through careful selective cross-breeding with heart-shaped parrots (but definitely not with the dwarf ones I've had =D).

Well, I'm not saying that 100% of heart-shaped FHs are produced through genetics. There really might be inhumane people out there who gains pleasure from deriving heart-shapes through mutilation. What I'm saying is that majority of such fish might not be mutilated.[13]"

Source: http://www.flowerhornusa.com/forums/...howtopic=32708

Then again, as this information is on heart shape parrot fish, it does not neccessary means the same applies to "black arrow angelfish". So till someone successfully breed these "black arrow angelfish" and finds out if they breed true (producing tail-less black arrow angelfish), the debate continues.

[Rod]

Thanks....but sorry ....I take no notice of what is said... Could be lies by someone trying to cover their butt!

I want to see pictures....sure pictures can be doctored but still it's the only proof that would convince me

Also saw someone say they had a line of flowerhorns without tails but later admitted they were lying!

Yes it is cruel...but is amazing what some will do to get something different to sell!

[Rod]

Here's another image....
To me it is very clear these fish have been butched....neatly....but still butched