Project Quiet River Shrimp Rack

[eviltrain]

Hehe. RO water dont really remove everything. I rather pull a box home once every month. Keke

[IrcKnight]

Nice setup bro

[stormhawk]

Nava, adding a screen or something at the top of the tanks might be crucial. While the adult shrimps may or may not scale the tops of the partitions against the flow of water, there is no telling where the puny shrimplets will drift to.

From memory, I found Temasek Shrimps in a pretty small stream with a sandy bottom and fast flowing water, in the central catchment area just after rainfall. They were easily seen even though the water was flowing at a pretty fast rate. The key here is to create some flow, not a turbulent one though. Placing some rocks will create eddies in the flow, so the shrimps will congregate in these areas with slightly slower moving water. Too much flow and these eddies will become nearly like whirlpools.

[xconnect.]

I also dont trust my house tap water because when i use aged shizhen treated water for my weekly water changes they will always be caulties and when i bath i accidentally tasted the tap water and noticed a strong metallic taste hence i suspect somewhere in the pipng system still got copper pipes or other metal contaminents hence i switched to 1.5litres of tesco distilled water from malaysia 12 1.5litres bottle 3 plus rm only i did not regret spending the money.because my shrimps are all ok !

[RonWill]

The valves are for the primary pipes, not for the secondary flow pipes. The purpose of the valve is to restrict flow on the primary pipe to the point where it cannot handle the entire flowrate from the return pump

I think you lost me. Shoot a video clip when the system is commissioned.

Also, if the flow rate for sump pump is too high, the PVC can be T'ed off (plus ball valve) to return exceeded water volume back into the sump. This will also ensure that the sump pump won't run 'dry'.

Your diagrams do not show plumbing schematics (to & from the sump) but the Arctica DBE-200's 1/4HP should be adequate. Still, it's easier to handle than my DA-1500B/DOJ-623F.

[Navanod]

Nava, adding a screen or something at the top of the tanks might be crucial. While the adult shrimps may or may not scale the tops of the partitions against the flow of water, there is no telling where the puny shrimplets will drift to.

From memory, I found Temasek Shrimps in a pretty small stream with a sandy bottom and fast flowing water, in the central catchment area just after rainfall. They were easily seen even though the water was flowing at a pretty fast rate. The key here is to create some flow, not a turbulent one though. Placing some rocks will create eddies in the flow, so the shrimps will congregate in these areas with slightly slower moving water. Too much flow and these eddies will become nearly like whirlpools.

Indeed, I'll be meshing up both over and underflow areas with mesh that are smaller than 1mm. For the sake of easing the flow restrictions, I may use a larger hole mesh between the breeder / grower compartments, so the shrimplets can visit their parents until they reach a certain size. Hehe.
I'll also be using a very fine filter cloth at the bottom of the overflow pipes to catch anything that got through.

There're also plans to have moss covered rocks/pebbles as well as marimo lawns in the tanks to provide resting spots from the water flow. I'm prepared to throttle back on the return pump if the flow is too much, not trying to make a washing machine!

I think you lost me. Shoot a video clip when the system is commissioned.

Also, if the flow rate for sump pump is too high, the PVC can be T'ed off (plus ball valve) to return exceeded water volume back into the sump. This will also ensure that the sump pump won't run 'dry'.

Your diagrams do not show plumbing schematics (to & from the sump) but the Arctica DBE-200's 1/4HP should be adequate. Still, it's easier to handle than my DA-1500B/DOJ-623F.

Might be quite a long wait for the video bro.

I'll do a quick and dirty drawing of the pipings and flow if I can find the time today.

You are using a 1.5hp Arctica?!?!?

[avex30]

Bypass design interesting to see if it is implement into the current work I think the bypass is a good one but it will make commissioning the system a little more challenging.

[RonWill]

Judging from earlier diagrams I've seen so far, I don't think 'quick and dirty' is in your vocab. As for the Artica, it's providing companionship to a RA-680 in the storeroom

[Navanod]

Argh! Progress is painfully slow...much of my sunday was spent cleaning out the tanks and washing all the PVC pipes and fittings.
Peeling the price tags off them proved to be the most time consuming.

Here's a tip, after peeling off the paper portion of those blasted price tags, if you still find that irritating sticky patch left on your items, simply drip some lighter fluid onto it and let sit for 5 secs. You should see the sticky bits turn into a jelly-like state. Wipe off in 1 direction before the lighter fluid dries, repeat if necessary.

Also did more shopping for silicon, hose, adaptors and meshes. Will take photos soon and post.

[felix_fx2]

Use a hair dryer on price tag before peeling. Hair dryer medium heat setting

[Navanod]

Judging from earlier diagrams I've seen so far, I don't think 'quick and dirty' is in your vocab. As for the Artica, it's providing companionship to a RA-680 in the storeroom

Hahaha, here's the quick and dirty


What a shame to have an Arctica languish as such!

[RonWill]

What a shame to have an Arctica languish as such!

No shame, all things in good time. Your setup is at it's final leg of completion. Mine is on the drawing board.

[Navanod]

No shame, all things in good time. Your setup is at it's final leg of completion. Mine is on the drawing board.

Ah, if there's a project on the board, that's a different matter altogether. My remark was not meant to offend in any ways.
Any thoughts on the diagram?

If the 3 pipes works as advertised, this is what should happen


When the return pump starts, water will flow into the end compartment and the middle pipe (primary) and the right hand side pipe (secondary) would both attempt to handle the flow. However, as both are not functioning under full siphon (there's still air), the flow they can handle is not enough to prevent water levels from rising. Hence, the water rises to the 3rd pipe (upturned emergency) and drains from there.

At this point, the pressure/weight of the water forces air out of the primary pipe into the sump below (at 20th sec mark in the video, notice the toilet flush-like sound) and the primary pipe achieves full siphon and starts to purge water at full flow. Any remaining air will be trapped at the top of the T-joint because air is more compressible than water.

It is important that this full flow is still not sufficient to accommodate the flow from the return pump, otherwise air will be reintroduce into the primary pipe, breaking the siphon. That's why there must be a valve to restrict the flow of water down the primary pipe until there's an excess. The secondary pipe, because there's a tiny hole attached to an airhose, will never achieve full siphon under normal conditions. This will handle the excess flow that the primary pipe is not able to take. Because the flow is so little & the elbow is submerged underwater, any flow will hug the walls of the pipe and not gurgle or make noise.

Should the primary pipe get blocked, water levels will again rise. This time, the 3rd emergency pipe will again engages to try to handle the flow, but will fail. Because of the upturned elbow, the 3rd pipe cannot achieve full siphon and thus, will not be able to take over from the primary pipe. Water level will continue to climb until it covers the airhose connected to the secondary pipe.

At this moment, the secondary pipe will no longer be able to intake air from the airhose and hence achieve full siphon, effectively turning into the primary pipe. The 3rd emergency pipe will then take over the role of the secondary, and make noise in the process (because unlike the 2nd pipe, the elbow is not submerge and so the noise can escape) warning me about the choke.

What I also suspect is that this will cause the water level in the partition to keep going up and down, since the secondary pipe have no restrictions and should be able to handle all the flow on its own, resulting in the toilet flush effect every few minutes, and the 2nd pipe's siphon engaging and breaking as the airhose gets submerged and exposed repeatedly

[avex30]

No shame, all things in good time. Your setup is at it's final leg of completion. Mine is on the drawing board.

When you want to showcase huh?? hahaha

[RonWill]

Ah, if there's a project on the board, that's a different matter altogether. My remark was not meant to offend in any ways

Offense? Don't worry. None taken but since my work schedules are pretty erratic, I'm unsure whether to proceed with multiple racks or let things sit a little longer on paper.

My thoughts? It's do-able, if not somewhat over-engineered for a non-marine tank. Personally, I would have gone for a simple water return manifold cum overflow bulkheads at every sealed-partition. Freshly-filtered water direct from the sump, each time, all the time.

With underflows, I have reservations regarding efficiency, MTBF and if you don't mind a little mingling amongst shrimplets from different partitions, then I suppose all is well. Also, if there is high flow between partitions, you might notice soil churning near the glass gaps.

Avex30, mine is a very simple setup. More function than form, not much to showcase.

[avex30]

Offense? Don't worry. None taken but since my work schedules are pretty erratic, I'm unsure whether to proceed with multiple racks or let things sit a little longer on paper.

My thoughts? It's do-able, if not somewhat over-engineered for a non-marine tank. Personally, I would have gone for a simple water return manifold cum overflow bulkheads at every sealed-partition. Freshly-filtered water direct from the sump, each time, all the time.

With underflows, I have reservations regarding efficiency, MTBF and if you don't mind a little mingling amongst shrimplets from different partitions, then I suppose all is well. Also, if there is high flow between partitions, you might notice soil churning near the glass gaps.

Avex30, mine is a very simple setup. More function than form, not much to showcase.

You are so humble wahahahaha simple is also a setup mah can let us learn mah.

[Navanod]

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. Finally got some pipings done but immediately got into some problems.

See, the thing about slotting the PVC into the fittings, is that they needed to be glued. Its VERY important to first tighten the male bulkhead-end to the tank glass before applying glue and joining to the Tee joint. Otherwise, if the Tee is glued and the bulkhead is not tighten, its too late to rotate the Tee to the correct orientation! Of course, once the Tee is slotted in, remove the entire assembly from the glass for tightening separately (instead of pushing against the glass!), taking care not to twist or rotate the tee.


I like that PVC glue comes with its own brush


The problem is, until I'm ready to glue, I couldn't test how deeply the PVC can be pushed into the fittings and can only rely on the "stopper" thread inside the fitting as an estimate. If I try to "dry fit" the PVC in and I jam it in all the way, I risk having it stuck and not being able to glue it. In the end, after gluing the first pipe, I realized that the PVC is protruding at least an inch longer than measured


The Tee joint only allows the PVC to go in half the distance from expected. The pipe is now sticking out from the stand by alot and I'm afraid I'll just walk into it and break something. It also threw my measurements into the sump off using a 45 degrees elbow.


I tried another and same results...after testing by sawing shorter pipes, I finally got the sweet length to use where I can shave 5cm off the width of the rack. I admit that I was so preoccupied with making sure that I glued the Tee in the correct orientation to the male-side of the bulkhead that I didn't even notice the extra length till I knocked into it later and wondered why its protruding more than expected. Sianz...back to the hardware shop for a new Tee and male bulkhead...

[Navanod]

Now for the good news!

I'm hopeless when it comes to drilling and the design called for 2 of the end caps to be drilled and tapped for an airhose to be inserted.
I finally found a great way to cheat!


I found that the giant hose I got for another part of the DIY project can actually seal over the end cap and tee fitting, replacing the PVC pipe. Just punch a hole through and apply some aquarium safe silicon (not that its necessary...this part should never touch water) and viola! Problem solved.

Lastly, the fine stainless steel mesh finally found, thanks to a mystery bro! Hehehe. 2 other bros also benefited from this find.
3 big rolls


Very fine indeed, heh heh


I also got alot of plastic meshes that are harder and stiffer to act as backing if necessary...but will only play with them after the piping works are done. Stay tuned...

[Navanod]

A few random thoughts.

1. Should I silicon around the rubber O-rings on both sides of the bulkheads? It'll give greater security against leaks but it'll make replacing the O-rings difficult. I'm also a messy silicon workman and it'll mean extra work.

2. That giant hose was meant for the sump end of the pipings, where I may need to adjust how deep underwater they go in order to start the siphon in the right pipe. The shop person and I were initially looking for something that could slip over the 25mm PVC pipe but that was not available.
In a moment of inspirations, I asked him if he had anything that can slip over the fittings instead, which was much larger (almost 35mm).
Now that I had used the hose for the end cap portion, I'm starting to think that it might be easier to use the hose for the part that I screwed up (the male bulkhead and Tee).
Done nicely, it will allow me to totally close the gap between the 2 fittings and increase the internal diameter that water can flow through.
I wouldn't do it for any vertical portions that is load bearing, as it may (a big may, this thing is tight!) eventually slip off but for the horizontal parts, it's a tempting thought, especially when I have the hose clamps to make sure nothing leaks. The advantages, room for errors and work saved...hmmm

[Navanod]

Offense? Don't worry. None taken but since my work schedules are pretty erratic, I'm unsure whether to proceed with multiple racks or let things sit a little longer on paper.

My thoughts? It's do-able, if not somewhat over-engineered for a non-marine tank. Personally, I would have gone for a simple water return manifold cum overflow bulkheads at every sealed-partition. Freshly-filtered water direct from the sump, each time, all the time.

With underflows, I have reservations regarding efficiency, MTBF and if you don't mind a little mingling amongst shrimplets from different partitions, then I suppose all is well. Also, if there is high flow between partitions, you might notice soil churning near the glass gaps.

Avex30, mine is a very simple setup. More function than form, not much to showcase.

Hehe, liked you said, quick and dirty is not for me...over-engineering is! Also, the simple return designs have no noise elimination, which is very important to me personally. I think its more suited for a larger planted tank but the fun comes from building it in this case.

I'm also concerned about MTBF and am brainstorming for how to "hot swap" out choked meshes, simultaneously replacing it with a spare clean piece. Done properly, I'm sure no shrimplets will be mingling, at least not those that matters.
Soil movement is also a concern that crossed my mind early, esp for the 1st partition, where water enters through cascading from the overflow. Some ideas:

1. Overlay the soil with lava chips
2. Place moss covered rocks as wavebreakers
3. Cover the soil with a moss carpet on mesh

The in-tank soil will be purely for aesthetics, to provide a contrast in color to the shrimps and something to cover the glass so as not to stress the shrimps. Soil height will be minimal, 1-2cm max.

I'm also looking at being able to "reset" a partition by sucking out all the soil from it easily, which is why I'm trying to keep it minimal.