Perhaps, white shrimp or golden or snow white shrimps are not albino, they are just like white tiger, lack of certain color and still have black or faded black color stripes and black eyes (white shrimp appears in my pale color form, yellow, pink, blue). Real albino tiger did exist, which was completely white and has pinkish eyes. Until now, we have yet to see a white shrimps (the CRS variant) with greyish blue eyes.
silane
Silane said "So your question of a totally white shrimp is end of the pattern trend for CRS, yes, somehow, look at the popularity of the camp which used white shrimp genes to develop their bee shrimps in Japan." If you look a little bit deeply, you should know what he means.Originally Posted by eviltrain
Can rephrase for me in layman terms? X.x
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CRS - CRazy about Shrimps
- Alan Phang -
You can't explain it simply, you don't understand it (well enough )..." - Albert Einstein
Erm, means I shouldn't start a wall of text thread to discuss the scientific and genetics of colors in animals?
haha. im talking about bro hyun007 la. XD
CRS - CRazy about Shrimps
- Alan Phang -
You can't explain it simply, you don't understand it (well enough )..." - Albert Einstein
Personally, I would not consider Snow White/Golden/White shrimps as Albinism in Shrimps. Reason being; Albinism is the actual absence of colour pigmentation in the particular specimen. That is to say, if a CRS/PRL is Albino, that would mean is will be totally colorless like a transparent shell, revealing only whatever colour the flesh is beneath as there is no colour pigments at all.
We can only be as sure as we can get to say that White is a recessive gene and not Albino since we are able to cultivate the White to be thick as in the examples of high grade CRS/PRLs. We have to consider white & red as a colour pigment.
Just my 2cents worth.
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Having done quite a fair bit of reading, research and thinking, I think I've more or less came up with a logical theory on what is golden/snow whites and what it means.
They are not albinos. More likely, they are leucistic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucism
Albino genes disrupt pigment production, leucistic genes does not. Instead it disrupts pigment cell migration during development of the egg into the animal. As a result, there are less pigment cells in the animal and mainly concentrated in certain areas. That's how it is able to so called "improve" the patterns of a CRS/BDS by preventing the red/black pigment cells from spreading as they should. Unfortunately, it also inhibits migration of white color cells and "bleaches out" the remaining pigment cells as well. So the resulting shrimp suffers from having transparent cracks and patches as well as reduced color intensity.
In humans, we only have melanocytes so albinism pretty much totally wipes out all our colors. In animals, they have other pigment cells so being albino does not mean they're colorless.
And here's the shocker. CRS are the albinos because albinism means a lack of melanin which is a brownish black pigment produced by melanophores in shrimps. A BDS actually have both red and black pigments in 2 separate kinds of pigment cells but black is more dominant, preventing the red from showing and very likely causing the red cells to be underdeveloped.
When a BDS ends up with double recessive albino genes, the black melanin can no longer be produced and the black cells are no longer visible (although they are still there). Red cells then takes over or become more visible. Very likely, the red would be very faded in the beginning but inbreeding to increase the redness of these red cell resulted in CRS.
White color cells are not pigment producing cells like the black or reds. they are "mirror" cells that due to a crystalline structure inside, reflects all lights back out. So shine a white light at them, white is produced. Shine red or blue light, and we'll see red or blue.
Golden shrimps are technically both albino and leucistic. They have no black pigments and almost all the patterns are gone although they still have faint redness from what remains of the red pigment cells. Why they're still able to exhibit good white may be related to how white cells are non-pigment producing cells but this requires some actual research in the labs to confirm.
I have found all the proper scientific names for these things but that's probably going to take a whole new thread and maybe even a thesis paper to discuss so lets see what everyone thinks first. I'm sure this will be like opening a whole truckload of worms.
Note that the above is my best hypothesis based on the papers I read and what is currently known about color synthesis in animals. I may be wrong and there may be many more other genes and forces at work. Afterall, life is never simple.
This thread learn alot of generic info...
Or was it genetics info? Hahaha!
Very interesting Navanod!!! Thanks for sharing with us.
Base on what you wrote, snowwhite/golden is also recessive? And Crs also recessive?
How does it work to produce either of them?
Sorry I don't know if it's out of topic. But am curious. And what about the whites in bkk and wr?
It's definitely a very insightful thread with lots of well-founded research done by Bro Navanod. I am surprised to learn that CRS is also considered an Albino. I guess the entire spectrum of genes hidden within a shrimp is much more than what we expect.
Back in school days, those who have learnt Bio would have learnt how the pair of Parental Genes or Blood type would affect the off-springs with a simple table. Expand that table with a few more variables, and I think that would support further on what Bro Navanod has posted.
Shrimps Watching.
Voted No.1 as Stress Reliever & Anti-Depressant.
Fine prints: Please learn to keep them alive successfully before applying.
http://shrimpsredefined.wordpress.com/
Wah...suan my England...spelling..
Yes, based on crossing golden/snow with CRS/BDS and having no golden/snow in F1, we can assume that the genes for leucism is recessive, similar to albinism.
CRS has always been known to be a recessive color morph of BDS, but not much is known how it happens. I propose that it is the result of albinism.
I would think that the black, red and white in BKK and WR are essentially the same type of color cells but the pattern distribution are different and more drastic.
The real interesting part comes when we explore BLUE colors. I now know why it is so difficult to create blue shrimps that breeds true. Because blue pigments are extremely rare in animals, most are found in plants or bacteria.
Most blue colors in animals are created using a modified white cell. Instead of a mirror like the white cell, a blue cell is a lens that refracts light instead of reflects. This causes the black cells underneath it to appear blue instead of black.
A similar effect is produced in Snow white shrimps when the faded underlying black cells are partially blocked by white. Some scattering of the lights produces a blue hue through the cracks.
To make green or purple, we need to have a layer of red cells on top the the black and the refractive lens (blue) cells. Red cells can appear yellow to red depending on a mix of the yellow, orange and red pigments produced and it is this filtering of blue light through a yellow or red layer that produces green or purple.
In some animal, the refractive layer is so complicated that it splits white light by scattering the light like a prism, producing an iridescence of blue or green. Like this:
Very very few marine fishes and some bacteria have true blue cells that have a blue pigment called cyanophores. Such as this fish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarinfish
I'm still not sure if Aura blue & Blue pearl shrimps uses cyanophores or the refractive method to produce their blues since these blue shrimps are translucent blue. However, Cyanophores are so rare that I doubt they have it...
But I'm quite certain that Blue bolt's blue are created by the refractive method with melanophores (the black cells). That's why Silane reported that although there are green and purple bolts too, those are not stable, because frankly, to get 3 layers of color cells to work together is going to be tough.
Its not so simple as the table bro, especially when we bring in other shrimps like sulawesi, tigers and cherries, or other colors like blue, green and purple. So far, much of these theories are referenced from other species and may not be totally accurate to shrimps.
Haha, your england is correct bro. Alot of generic info is coming out. I'm the one adding genetics info. Hehehe
So what are those CRS that are neither red nor black but more like maroon? Halfbino? Can you only have half a albino?
The fact that there are maroon CRS/BDS kind of confirms my suspicions that a BDS actually have red pigments as well. They are BDS with poor black colors.
The maroon is probably caused by a BDS having very faded black, either through having very poor pigmentations or very few black cells in that area. If the red overlying cells are intense enough, the light bouncing off the underlying black/brown is tinted red, producing a maroon hue.
I also found this picture that confirms that a BDS actually have red cells, meaning that in a CRS, the black is not replaced by red. Rather, the red is always there, just hidden by the black in a normal BDS
The guy who took this picture claims that the dots on their tail looked red. Looks brown to me, but probably its a camera color issue
That's how tricolor shrimps like this one is possible.
Red and black colors are technically totally independent of each other
this is a great thread about CRS/CBS .. learn alot and been reading too.. thanks for all bro providing information!
Patience is the key to success
Good info. Thanks.
Hi Navanod, you really read up alot. Thanks for sharing.
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