A Good question given to me by a Senior....

[silane]

Hardcore shrimp hobbyist will go to the extend if their tanks is full of the PRL. Any additions to the colony will inflict risk of introduce golden gene in.

Send from my GT-P1000 (Overcome 7 Series v4.0.0)

now i have over 500 Japan prl from same line from same line from initial population of 50, zero golden in the offsprings.

about 2000 silane prl, breeding for many generations for 4 years in 1 large tank, again, no golden offsprings.

i guess you are right to say addition to colony increase risk of introduction golden genes, i have not heard of anyone serious in making prl go around exchanging genes when their genes is believed to be good enough or in hurry to make sales of whats breedout without comfirmation of the genes without further generation of breedings

[eviltrain]

Boss Silane, that will depends oh how much the seller trust the source where he bought from le lor.

[silane]

Boss Silane, that will depends oh how much the seller trust the source where he bought from le lor.

i think one trust the seller then will buy them as prl. If no trust, dun think one is willing to part their money for goldenised prl at price of prl. but further generations breeding can ensure purity of the lines

[hyun007]

If the PRL is pure enough, all the F1 offsprings when crossed with a golden, should be all CRS, without any golden.
If the PRL is tainted with golden genes, the F1 offsprings should have 50% golden and 50% CRS. Even if we include some random luck, there should still be 1 or 2 goldens.

Anyone able to give a statistic of how many pure PRL were tested in this experiment???

This calculation is to show that PRL gene is more dominating but we also have to take into account that sometime Nature has it own funny way of doing things that can go beyond science explanation.

Is it really impossible for a pure PRL to mate with a Golden/Snow to come out with 1 or 2 golden/snow???

P.S. I am not saying anyone on this thread is wrong, it will be nice to hear from bros who can give a statistic, example, how many Pure PRL shrimps they tested to conclude the results above as 100% accurate.

[Navanod]

Anyone able to give a statistic of how many pure PRL were tested in this experiment???

This calculation is to show that PRL gene is more dominating but we also have to take into account that sometime Nature has it own funny way of doing things that can go beyond science explanation.

Is it really impossible for a pure PRL to mate with a Golden/Snow to come out with 1 or 2 golden/snow???

P.S. I am not saying anyone on this thread is wrong, it will be nice to hear from bros who can give a statistic, example, how many Pure PRL shrimps they tested to conclude the results above as 100% accurate.

There is no experiments bro, it is simple basic mendelian genetics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance
There's no such thing as "PRL gene", just normal genes and defective leucistic gene, aka golden snow white genes.

Each creature have a pair of each genes, one from each parent. Since the PRL have 2 pairs of normal genes and the golden shimp have 2 pairs of leucism genes, ALL 100% of their babies would have 1 normal gene and 1 leucism gene. Since leucism only appears if both genes are leucistic, all the babies looks "normal".
So yes, it is almost impossible for a pure PRL to mate with a golden and produce golden babies. The only way that would happen, is that a super rare random mutation, the same kind that created the first golden shrimp, were to happen to this PRL's egg or sperm when it mated with the golden.

But if a CRS is actually a baby of a golden shrimp, it would have 1 normal gene and 1 leucism gene. So mathematically, if this CRS (or fake PRL) when mated with a golden shrimp, would have a 50/50 chance of passing the leucism genes to each of the offsprings.

I was saying that, even though a batch of babies from a CRS is not very large, this 50/50 chance would still result in at least 1 or 2 golden shrimp babies, even if only 5 babies are born. But again, its all probabilities. It is possible that even with a 50% chance, all the babies will get lucky and not get the golden genes.
How trustworthy is this test will then depend on how many babies are actually born. If only 2 babies are born and both are normal looking, it'll not be as convincing as having 20 babies all born normal.
It's like rolling dice. How many time can you roll a dice without getting 1, 2 or 3 results?

[hyun007]

There is no experiments bro, it is simple basic mendelian genetics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendelian_inheritance
There's no such thing as "PRL gene", just normal genes and defective leucistic gene, aka golden snow white genes.

Each creature have a pair of each genes, one from each parent. Since the PRL have 2 pairs of normal genes and the golden shimp have 2 pairs of leucism genes, ALL 100% of their babies would have 1 normal gene and 1 leucism gene. Since leucism only appears if both genes are leucistic, all the babies looks "normal".
So yes, it is almost impossible for a pure PRL to mate with a golden and produce golden babies. The only way that would happen, is that a super rare random mutation, the same kind that created the first golden shrimp, were to happen to this PRL's egg or sperm when it mated with the golden.

But if a CRS is actually a baby of a golden shrimp, it would have 1 normal gene and 1 leucism gene. So mathematically, if this CRS (or fake PRL) when mated with a golden shrimp, would have a 50/50 chance of passing the leucism genes to each of the offsprings.

I was saying that, even though a batch of babies from a CRS is not very large, this 50/50 chance would still result in at least 1 or 2 golden shrimp babies, even if only 5 babies are born. But again, its all probabilities. It is possible that even with a 50% chance, all the babies will get lucky and not get the golden genes.
How trustworthy is this test will then depend on how many babies are actually born. If only 2 babies are born and both are normal looking, it'll not be as convincing as having 20 babies all born normal.
It's like rolling dice. How many time can you roll a dice without getting 1, 2 or 3 results?

Thanks for the simplified answer for a blondy like me.

As for the dice rolling, I need to ask 赌神 to do it for me. (means manipulative result)

[stormhawk]

The God of Gamblers can't protect you from a bad result, if the breeder does not tell you that his shrimps may be carrying recessive genes.

[Navanod]

Haha! The entire point to crossing unknown PRL with golden to test, is that we expect bad results if the breeder had cheated.
If there's no breeder cheating involved, then only a God can manipulate the results to produce a golden.
If there's cheating involved, whats the god of gambler supposed to do? Hide the cheating by manipulating the results? Or create a heart attack by making all golden shrimplets? Hehe.

I would forsee that the trend of mixing in golden is dying and most line would eventually be "cleaned up". The incentives to cheat is no longer there

[cheetf]

Haha! The entire point to crossing unknown PRL with golden to test, is that we expect bad results if the breeder had cheated.
If there's no breeder cheating involved, then only a God can manipulate the results to produce a golden.
If there's cheating involved, whats the god of gambler supposed to do? Hide the cheating by manipulating the results? Or create a heart attack by making all golden shrimplets? Hehe.

I would forsee that the trend of mixing in golden is dying and most line would eventually be "cleaned up". The incentives to cheat is no longer there

You are right that the trend of mixing in golden genes will probably die off. But meanwhile the present batch of 'PRL' will still be sold off as PCRS (Pricy CRS). So people will still get conned.

To make sure that you do not get cheated, it is best to get from long established breeders which have a good reputation.

[anakkucing]

This is a very good thread to learn about PRL.. Thanks for sharing the info. I am wondering what will be the outcome if PRL male breed with CRS female that has golden gene?

[Zenith82]

I've learned new things as I move around in the forum.
Navanod bro's explanation was valuable and it enriched my views on shrimp genetics.

Thanks for sharing!

[cheetf]

This is a very good thread to learn about PRL.. Thanks for sharing the info. I am wondering what will be the outcome if PRL male breed with CRS female that has golden gene?

You can refer to the experiment stated earlier. PRL are actually 'pedigree' CRS

[silane]

I would forsee that the trend of mixing in golden is dying and most line would eventually be "cleaned up". The incentives to cheat is no longer there

I dont think the mix golden genes line can be cleaned up, if no serious and systematic effort has been made. One example is, noone made an effort to clean up golden genes before its phentoype appear (in first place, noone know there is golden genes), white shrimp appear. Another example is, after millions (?) of years, a recessive is not cleaned off by nature, that is the red color genes of CBS and CRS is not found in nature.

Some setup methods increase the possibility of getting shrimps mixed.

[magpie]

Side track abot. A question over the Taiwanese breed bkk and not into PRL topic. Isn't it a mix of golden, BDS and crs then mutated into bkk from the taiwanese breeder? If not one cross breed these shrimps, there wouldn't be bkk, wine red and blue bolt shrimps.

[ZackZhou]

Side track abot. A question over the Taiwanese breed bkk and not into PRL topic. Isn't it a mix of golden, BDS and crs then mutated into bkk from the taiwanese breeder? If not one cross breed these shrimps, there wouldn't be bkk, wine red and blue bolt shrimps.

Did not get what you meant and this is way off ts's topic.

[anakkucing]

You can refer to the experiment stated earlier. PRL are actually 'pedigree' CRS

Maybe I don't understand the statements earlier, but I could not find the information. I am guessing the offsprings should all be CRS but with golden genes (same is we cross PRL male and golden female)?

[magpie]

Did not get what you meant and this is way off ts's topic.

Since it is off topic then just ignore my reply.

[eviltrain]

Since it is off topic then just ignore my reply.

Create another thread. Im interested in that discussion too.

Send from my GT-P1000 (Overcome 7 Series v4.0.0)

[Navanod]

Side track abot. A question over the Taiwanese breed bkk and not into PRL topic. Isn't it a mix of golden, BDS and crs then mutated into bkk from the taiwanese breeder? If not one cross breed these shrimps, there wouldn't be bkk, wine red and blue bolt shrimps.

Taiwan bees like the BKK, WR and BB are a whole different ballgame bro. We more or less know the BKK is not really created by reversing the BDS breeding method to select for black. Something more sudden may have happened, such as a mutation that disrupted the tight color control genes in normal BDS, causing pigmented color cells to cover the majority of the bodies, including the often difficult to color legs.
My suspicious is based on observations of the blue bolts, where the 2 clashing genes created a white shrimp with black/blue undertones.

I do not have a clear idea of how their colors came about yet, so I'll reserve my comments on this for now

[Navanod]

Ok, I'm to create a separate thread to further such discussions.