Arh.. Realize my above post too long winded. In short, cheap $$ shrimp= less argument, get cheated once, you lose $50 bucks and move on. expensive shrimp = photo please,if it matches both your requirement, expectation + the $$ you willing to spend, you buy. its that simple
Zack
Thanks for the interesting comments.Originally Posted by huizhong
Bro Huizhong, are you referring to the first more complicated system? Or the 2nd simplified one because in the 2nd one, the body and legs are graded separately as you had suggested, along with reducing the premium pedigree grades to 4 tiers. Exactly as you had suggested.
PRL grading should be more dimensions on white, red/black and features. This system just rate on white, does not address red/black and colors on features what make a good PRL. You have worked on white.. perpahs should work on red and features.
silane
Oh ya, we missed out on the red too. Some crs come with different types of reds. Orangy, blood red, maron. Kind of difficult to grade this way and base one which red to grade from.
But, more or less, 1/2 the grading (white) has already done with. I really salute bro navanod for spending his time on these few threads writing "wall of words" for easier understanding of shrimps for newbies like me. Good job!
Send from my GT-P1000 (Overcome 7 Series v4.0.0)
CRS - CRazy about Shrimps
- Alan Phang -
You can't explain it simply, you don't understand it (well enough )..." - Albert Einstein
Bro Zack, let's see if I understand your points right.
You think the system is not practical because shrimps that we are dealing with are too cheap to be worth grading and those worth grading are so expensive we wouldn't buy them anyway.
You also believe that shrimps that are worth a bomb, can be judged on it's worth by looking at a good picture, without a need for references?
Also, since we are not willing to pay a bomb, we deserved to be scammed of our $50 a shrimp by dubious sellers and that we should just "move on" since it's our fault for not willing to spend more?
Could you define what you would expect our local hobbyists should do to mature the hobby? Cough up more $$?
I was under the impression that maturing the hobby mean having a greater understanding of what we are paying other countries and breeders for, breeding our own fantastic grade shrimps and not let people take advantage of our ignorance and lack of experience.
Maturing the hobby also means that we should come up with new and exciting things, not forever follow behind Taiwan & Japan. Currently, we are not only just a follower, but a net end consumer, paying money to help the Taiwanese, Japanese and Thais mature their hobbys.
Surely our local hobbyists are not that hopeless that they can only save up to pay for a $2500USD shrimp, quickly taking a photo of it to show off before the shrimp dies, then declaring that we have matured in the hobby?
Hmmm, thanks for the valuable insights again. I actually assumed that the "fully colored" & "solid" covered both white and red. The "irregular" patterns was aimed at red as well. What else should the red/black parts be graded for in your opinion?
Some examples of features?
Types of red would be tricky. Who is to say which red is better than another? Haha!!
As I said, I thought the recently proposed system also covered the reds? What did I missed?
Was actually referring to both. Somehow they are still comprehensive.
If a grade 1 has a (-), I would think it is automatically drop to grade 2 since the grading is strict.
To be even straight forward, do away with the (+)(-) thing. As I think this is no longer necessary as the top grades would be shown pictures for customers. Don't think anybody will spend $3-5K for a pc of prl without even looking at its pictures or video, or in real.
Those prl thats on sale from breeders in Sg, are definitely the cheaper ones(culls), like bro zack said, about grade 3-4. Gradings for grades 3-4 with (+) would benefit more to differtiate the different quality. Grade 1-2 with such high pricing definitely needs more than just words to describe them.
From a logical point of view, only the famous breeders in Japan or Taiwan has gade 1 prl(and some very few in the world). If it is so easy to get grade 1 or replicate them in their offsprings, the pricing will speak for itself. If I'm the famous breeder, I definitely will have the best grade breeding colony for myself so as to continue my superior line and keep my rice bowl. and these breeders definitely don't need the gradings to grade their stock. Only resellers breeders need.
So point is... Grade 3 onwards to have comprehensive grading if you want?
Haha I'm so long winded... Sorry
Bro navonod, I definitely did not mean what you mentioned in the above post. Maybe I did put it abit bluntly, causing you some discomfort and thus you sort of "twisted" my word a little bit to the ugly side. Haha. My apology. I too know that you did mean me no harm intended and it's just an typical Internet text misinterpretation.
1. Lets talk about in Singapore context alone. If you come up with the grading system, who will be using them? Only bro soonhong? Because he is the only one I know of in SG who has at least say G2,3 and above prls.
2. "Also, since we are not willing to pay a bomb, we deserved to be scammed of our $50 a shrimp by dubious sellers and that we should just "move on" since it's our fault for not willing to spend more?" since you mentioned this, lets be pratical. may I ask how will the new grading system work on to solve/prevent this incident from happening?
3. How are going to carry out this grading system? Will this have any effect on the whole Singapore hobbyist, other countries? IMO, it ultimately still relies on reputation and position in this line of trade. Maybe silane will be carrying out this grading system to the public? What I am trying to say is that we do not have the expirence and the knowledge in creating this grading system. Simply because we do not own a single G1,G2!
4. Like you and I mentioned above in my earlier post. We are following the trend. 2 options, like you said, we Either "Cough up more $$" to be in the lead of this trend. Example, bro soonhong. OR we try to invent/create new stuffs. Example, bro xmant. No offense to the 2 bros mentioned, they are actually the ones that are leading the Singapore shrimp hobby.
5. Yes I still believe that Singapore market for shrimp is not matured. And ultimately if we do want to be competitive in the PRL market, we HAVE to cough more $$ to get prls from Taiwan/Japan. There is simply no other ways.
Zack
In whole, I do not support this grading system.
1. Why the last grading system and the German k system worked. Because they grade in pattern. If its ss grade, everyone agrees on ss grade being either a hino, a no-entry or little lips. Other than that, it's not an ss grade. It's a fact. No arguments about it.
The new prl grading system. Colour. everyone see colour differently, ya that's it.
I would still stick to pictures and willing buyer, willing seller policy.
Zack
Bro navonod, I 100% feel that you really did a wonderful job in trying to improve the shrimp hobby on a national level, however, this topic I have to disagree with you on this grading system.
Zack
think that I have left out this part.
"I was under the impression that maturing the hobby mean having a greater understanding of what we are paying other countries and breeders for, breeding our own fantastic grade shrimps and not let people take advantage of our ignorance and lack of experience."
Someone who is willing to pay $2000 for a single shrimp. Do you think that he would be ignorant/lack of expirence and just dive in for the purchase? I believe anyone in Singapore who are willing to buy a $200 shrimp would have kept crs/kk/wr for quite some time before making the purchase. He should know how to judge a price to quality picture. Most will still buy from local hobbyist bred-outs and lfs sales.
How to mature a hobby on this exact same trade/hobby.
Pump in more money to one of the first. However, you cannot be first unless something happened to the first. Let me explain.
If you want to in the lead of PRL only, you buy expensive prls of superb quality from hobbyist from Japan/Taiwan(in this case, you pay money to help the Taiwanese, Japanese and Thais mature their hobbys.) If you managed to breed out and expand the population, you will be competitive geographically. Because you are in Singapore! No one else can match your prl colours and they can only find matching ones overseas. (bro soonhong is in the midst of doing that. Hahaha)
"Maturing the hobby also means that we should come up with new and exciting things, not forever follow behind Taiwan & Japan."
New things meaning you have to come up with new trends, like the super crystal reds by the Germans. However, it comes with great risks and sheer determination and most importantly, time! In Singapore like I mentioned, only xmant is doing this.
And I need to bring out a point that people only start to venture out into new trends if they had success in their mainstream trends. That is to say the local hobby has to mature to a certain extent before attempting to create something special.
"Surely our local hobbyists are not that hopeless that they can only save up to pay for a $2500USD shrimp, quickly taking a photo of it to show off before the shrimp dies, then declaring that we have matured in the hobby?"
This will be sad if it really happens but this sentence is actually partially true.we mature into the hobby with someone buying expensive shrimps and start breeding to supply to the local hobbyist! Or else we will be always following trends and being net-end comsumers.
Zack
Bro navonod, I came up with an example.
Let's do assume every hobbyists in the world had come to a agreement on this grading system. And someone in singapore approach a breeder in Taiwan to purchase prls with a intended budget of $200/shrimp. Now comes the question. "will you or will you not ask for pictures even though he had listed you the grades according to your grading system?"
As if you do, the grading system had failed.
(we generally did not ask for pictures when dealing crs base on patterns
Zack
Bro Zack,
Yea, it was late and I was reading from my phone so perhaps your text sounded very mercenary at that time.
Appreciate you staying up so late to give so much feedback, and look like something good came of it because I see some very valid points I fully agree with that wasn't in your initial postings.
I also see many questions which I shall not attempt to answer all, because I cannot claim to have all the answers but I shall reply to what is pertinent to the topic. Forgive me for cherry picking
It was designed with the intention and knowledge that most people here would only have G3 or lower grades. I don't think it's right to leave out higher grades just because we don't have them yet. Perhaps people will now breed hard and save up hard to get G1s?
It's a small step to making sellers more responsible and new comers more aware. I give you an example. I was chatting with one of the bros you mentioned who had PRL and he was telling me about "low grades" & "mid grades" shrimps from overseas. I totally cannot relate to what is low and mid as I've not been to the breeder's house to see his shrimps.
Likewise, a seller can say his shrimps are mid grade PRLs without any reference. Then he shows some pictures. I'm sure there'll be people would still believe and buy from him. Without a system, all the breeders and seller would still come up with their own when marketing and we all know the conflicts of interest there.
Silane did mention that we can try to create one locally for our own use first. If it works well, he'll bring it to a german conference that he had been invited to. I disagree that we have to own G1s to qualify to grade them. Wait, you're already using the grade what bro?!
Fully agree! This was exactly what bro Eviltrain and I talked about as well (and we mentioned the same 2 person!)! That most of us are not breeders, just keepers, unlike Soonhong and Xmant.
Its a vicious cycle. People don't dare to cough up cash because they don't trust the grades they're getting. They don't trust it because we're always getting the leftovers and culls. But as long as locals do not have a system to see that these are only low grades G4 & 5s, then they'll continue to play safe and go with the cheap grades. Like you said, at most lose $50 loh. But where does that bring the hobby?
I can see that the trend is changing because our understandings of how to keep the expensive shrimps alive has also improved. 2yrs ago, people are unwilling to even pay for SS shrimps that cost $12 and painted fire reds that cost $8. Now we see people buying $50 shrimps and even $100 blue bolts.
Yes, we're still far from $2500 shrimps but do we really want to go there?
Very valid point, I'll keep that in mind and try to come out with a more clear cut grading. Otherwise, its back to iphone pictures and berber sellers, blur blur buyers.
I thank you again bro. I respectfully agree to disagree.Bro navonod, I 100% feel that you really did a wonderful job in trying to improve the shrimp hobby on a national level, however, this topic I have to disagree with you on this grading system.
But pattern based CRS don't cost $200/shrimp, at least not in the last 3 or 4 years. And people still prefer to pay abit more to go to GC and CRS Haven to pick.Bro navonod, I came up with an example.
Let's do assume every hobbyists in the world had come to a agreement on this grading system. And someone in singapore approach a breeder in Taiwan to purchase prls with a intended budget of $200/shrimp. Now comes the question. "will you or will you not ask for pictures even though he had listed you the grades according to your grading system?"
As if you do, the grading system had failed.
(we generally did not ask for pictures when dealing crs base on patterns
Let me ask you then, if you're buying a $200/shrimp SSS flowerhead, will you ask for pictures?
Bro Ecalyte would be an expert on this, we should ask him. If people would still ask for pictures to see the flowerheads, then does that mean the CRS grading system is also failed?
To me, its a strawman argument bro. Asking for pictures to verify the grades claimed is entirely reasonable and does not mean the grading is worthless.
Thanks bro, so you think we should have a hybrid of the complicated system and the simplified? for G2 and G1, the legs would affect their grades while in G3 & 4, the legs can be a +/-?
hmm... afterall the grading is given based on the seller's opinion.
buyers may not agree to his grading. eg, i am selling my S grade crs, and a buyer came over my place and said, this is a B grade to him.
so it doesn't matter how complicated and comprehensive the grading system works. i propose we keep it simple and easy! just grade 1,2,3,4,rejects.
even the rejecteds can fetch $20 at this moment i guess.
and maybe a price range for each grade ? so we new birds can learn and estimate the pricing base on the grades? or this will be another new thread?
i really have no idea on prl pricing, as i only visit AQ forum and not other shrimps forums.
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