A painful experience on soil

[chansl]

Hi guys i would like to share my experience on soil.

I am a newbie and wanted to start up my first shrimp tank. I went to a LFS to purchase shrimp soil. I know there is GEX or ADA soil but the uncle introduce me a soil call up-aqua shrimp sand. It said to have special mineral in it and please to buffer the ph to 6.5. I bought 2 packets and tried it out. I follow Zen bro method to put ceramic rings at the base and the soil. To my horror, after cycling it for 3 weeks. I tested the ph and it was 7.5 !!!!

I went to the LFS and asked him what's wrong. He asked the supplier that was there just nice and we had a debate. He claimed that this soil does not buffer Singapore tap water as it is too hard. The worst that pissed me off was that he said his client rear crs at ph level of 7.5 and he does not care what online forum experts said about crs rearing. Of course I felt disappointed and because i had spent so much money to change better ceramic rings and add in more soil by thinking maybe it will buffer the water. So now, i spent more money to purchase mosura ph down and second hand soil to mix with the current soil.

I am just sharing this experience so that if anyone wants to try out this soil. Please make sure you tried it before because i did experiment and realise it can only buffer mineral water but not tap water. Painful experience.

Just my 2 cent worth

[xconnect.]

Waaa Which Lfs so bad.... If is me I would Ask the supplier.anyway did you de- chlorinate water before putting in tank? Do you have other things that may alter ph? A tank shot would help and mosura ph down quite strong so need control of not ph fluctuate alot .

[Zenith82]

Chansl, so sorry to hear about your bad experience. Care to share which LFS with such lousy service. Next time don't buy such soil anymore, sometimes want to save some money instead you spend more. Next time seek more advice or do homework before getting something you are not sure. LFS people cannot trust, unless they are knowledgeable and reputable.

Singapores water is consider soft. That supplier also tell you lots of lousy excuse. Just becareful next time. Hope your tank pH is stable. I would suggest to change soil, rather than use mosura pH down for temporary solution. Do monitor your tank perimeter before adding shrimps.

[Navanod]

Sorry to hear about the bad experience bro.
The thing about Spore's LFS is that most are merchants first, hobbyists last. Conflict of interests and poor knowledge is the norm here. I have LFS trying to sell me Rams to put into my shrimp tank, telling me that their mouths too small to eat shrimps. Yeah right.

Singapore's tap water had gotten somewhat more alkaline, with pH creeping up from 7.2 to 7.6 for my home. But that's very very little and barely makes a difference. It is also very very soft, with GH of 1, KH 0 and TDS 75 for me. That supplier must be smoking something really funky to claim that we have hard water.

Don't freak out bro, 7.5pH is not difficult to remedy. Avoid large water change and use pH lowering soil and products to control.

[reiner09]

Depending where you stay,the gh varies also though..for my place the gh is rather high .. Just tested it last week it was about 5-6..

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[Navanod]

Depending where you stay,the gh varies also though..for my place the gh is rather high .. Just tested it last week it was about 5-6..

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

Interesting bro. Most likely your water comes from CCK Bedok waterworks as we only have 2 main sources.

[avex30]

Hi Chan do pm the lfs hahahaha anyway sorry to hear your experience. Basically a side note there is no such thing that Singapore tapwater is too hard is all Bull crap. Yes Singapore water range from 7.1-8.1 depend on the area you are in and the currently stuff they add into our tapwater. We need to do some side work before using the water even during cycling.

I think the soil deplete much faster than expected.... Current tapwater situation base on my own testing with 2 pails.

pail 1

Keep dosing Ph down just to have it the ph raise back over night but always slightly lower than before. meaning

day 1 i collect is ph 7.5 i dose it down to ph 5.
day 2 check ph raise back to 7.3 - 7.5 hovering i dose ph down again to 5.
day 3 check ph bounce back to ab out 7.1-7.3 hovering

the above step is repeat for at least 2-3 weeks+ before it finally hover between 5.5-6 all this time there is small sponge filter bubbling inside.

pail 2

is using mosura softwater with a corner filter dump it in 2 weeks to bring it down 5.5-6 but you will have to adjust the rest cause GH cannot be read (i think it went to 0)


I ain't surprise the soil is not meant to buffer our tap water at this kinda of issue happening. So better get a realiable soil.

Last do share the LFS hahahaha i just curious.

[reiner09]

yep i believe ph wise is abit difficult to control due to the presence of kh in the tapwater, i have about kh 2 in my tapwater though( wonder what additives pub used for my tapwater..it feels like factory water with high kh and gh and ph).. I myself is using mosura softwater to age my water too..don't know whether what i used is too little or what but the ph doesn't seem to have much changes while gh dropped from 6 to 4 in 3 days..

[chansl]

hi guys.

Latest update . I went back to LFS. The boss was really nice, i discussed with him my experiment and experience and he immediately pass me a 8kg GEX red packet. Is GEX better ?

I think the LFS boss himself dont know the shrimp product well. So not really his fault. I think is the supplier that i debated with as he seemed to know that this soil could not buffer the water pH in Singapore as he claimed that there is also water chemical in our water that prevent the buffer. This can be further evidenced when i tried using distilled water with the soil and aged tap water with the soil. The distilled water pH dropped while the tap water remain the same.

The boss agreed to give me some crs for the losses i made due to the soil i bought from him. Of course i dont expect to recover full losses but i am glad that at least the LFS uncle is nice to offer me alternative without charging me more. Afterall, i should have used the well known soil rather than venturing to new stuffs.

I just want to advise everyone that LFS boss may not know what they are selling and usually look at the description of the product like how we did. I learnt that not all products are suitable in Singapore context as water quality is different from the manufacturer country.

[Zenith82]

I guess, you are lucky not much LFS will even bother to compensate.
Seems like at least they bother to rectify the mistake the caused you.
But yet becareful what you going to buy. Just make sure you check them out and understand the benifits before purchasing.

[chansl]

I guess, you are lucky not much LFS will even bother to compensate.
Seems like at least they bother to rectify the mistake the caused you.
But yet becareful what you going to buy. Just make sure you check them out and understand the benifits before purchasing.

Yes i agree. I am pretty lucky and he is really a nice chap. I spend more time talking to him than buying his stuff. Anyway, i pm you regarding some soil question. Is GEX soil good ? He gave me a GEX red packet.

[Navanod]

GEX as a shrimp soil is ok for short term use. However, there were feedbacks that the pH lowering capability does not last very long, especially with frequent waterchange.

Anyone with actual experience with GEX soil?

One thing to note chansl, don't be too obsessed with or dependent on the soil. Find out your tap water's pH and KH first. Then make sure you have nothing in the tank that's going to affect pH as suggested by xconnect bro.

Based on that, you can then have a feel of what kinda soil you'll need and if additional pH lowering products are needed or if you need to consider RO water for waterchange.

[Matt]

I have personally used GEX soil (red pack) in my shrimp tank. As pointed out by Bro Navanod, the pH buffering properties last for a very short period only. For my case, within 5 months, with a regular water change on an average of bi-weekly routine, the initial pH rose from 6.2 to 7.2. In the end, I have to buffer the pH with Mosura Softwater & CO2.

For your info, that tank is a 2ft tank with 40-50mm soil thickness. So perhaps for a longer buffering period, I would suggest you try with a thickness of 70mm? Perhaps will last about a year for that thickness?

[chansl]

GEX as a shrimp soil is ok for short term use. However, there were feedbacks that the pH lowering capability does not last very long, especially with frequent waterchange.

Anyone with actual experience with GEX soil?

One thing to note chansl, don't be too obsessed with or dependent on the soil. Find out your tap water's pH and KH first. Then make sure you have nothing in the tank that's going to affect pH as suggested by xconnect bro.

Based on that, you can then have a feel of what kinda soil you'll need and if additional pH lowering products are needed or if you need to consider RO water for waterchange.

Hi

My house tap water has a pH of 7.5 . Sorry just wondering how will kH affect the buffering of pH. You mean the higher the kH the harder it is for the soil to buffer the pH of the water? I did check and realise i put in alot of wrong stuff like nitrate minus that helped to reduce nitrate but didnt know it stabilize pH too. So i remove it .. The ceramic rings i changed to bio home as i heard it is very good and neutral pH. As for tap water, what is a RO and how it helped to in making the tap water suitable ?

[chansl]

I have personally used GEX soil (red pack) in my shrimp tank. As pointed out by Bro Navanod, the pH buffering properties last for a very short period only. For my case, within 5 months, with a regular water change on an average of bi-weekly routine, the initial pH rose from 6.2 to 7.2. In the end, I have to buffer the pH with Mosura Softwater & CO2.

For your info, that tank is a 2ft tank with 40-50mm soil thickness. So perhaps for a longer buffering period, I would suggest you try with a thickness of 70mm? Perhaps will last about a year for that thickness?

How does mosura softwater helps ? You mean when you age the tap water , you add that in ?

[Navanod]

For your info, that tank is a 2ft tank with 40-50mm soil thickness. So perhaps for a longer buffering period, I would suggest you try with a thickness of 70mm? Perhaps will last about a year for that thickness?

Thanks for sharing bro. Sounds similar to what I had read. Other shrimp soils can last around a year, longer if well cared for.
I'll be very careful with just dumping in more soil and having a super thick soil layer at the bottom. If choked, the bottom soil probably will not get enough water flow to help much with the pH but will instead encourage anaerobic bacteria growth, producing the classic rotten egg smell. How thick the soil should be is dependent on soil type, bioload and waterflow, but a good rule of thumb for me is to stay within 10cm.

Hi

My house tap water has a pH of 7.5 . Sorry just wondering how will kH affect the buffering of pH. You mean the higher the kH the harder it is for the soil to buffer the pH of the water? I did check and realise i put in alot of wrong stuff like nitrate minus that helped to reduce nitrate but didnt know it stabilize pH too. So i remove it .. The ceramic rings i changed to bio home as i heard it is very good and neutral pH. As for tap water, what is a RO and how it helped to in making the tap water suitable ?

Bro, I suggest you do more reading up before ou spend more money to change things since you seemed to be rather new at shrimps.
Your tap's pH is not too alkaline so you probably can continue using it. Most good shrimp soil should be able to lower the pH to 6.5-6.8.
Yes, KH is what prevents the pH from changing. The higher the KH, the more acid the soil must leak to bring down the pH. So check your tap's KH too. High KH water is usually alkaline in pH.
Check your tank's current KH as well. If it's any higher than 4, reduce it by changing water (use water with zero KH please).
Remove all coral based filter media and decorations in the tank too. Any rocks should also be removed if KH remains high in your tank for no reason.

RO water stands for "Reverse Osmosis", where water is forced through a very very fine membrane that filters out almost all impurities. It is a rather costly process in the past but some home kits are now available. If the tank is small, you can even get away with buying bottled RO or distilled water sold by supermarkets.

These "almost pure" water can be used for waterchange as it does not affect pH (some people claims it lower pH, likely due to it's slight acidity from having CO2 dissolve into it).
However, note that long term use of such pure water is not good for shrimps and fishes as it depletes the minerals in the tank, so people have to add those minerals back in separately (taking care not to add KH of course).

That's all I can tell you for now. I'm sure the rest of the bros here will fill in whatever I had missed out.

How does mosura softwater helps ? You mean when you age the tap water , you add that in ?

This is an ion exchange resin. It exchanges ions with the water to "soften" it, mainly through reducing the GH (and KH at the same time) by substituting "softer" ions for the "harder" ones (calcium and megnesium) and through that, decreases the pH.
I cannot be sure this is ideal for the long term, but I shall reserve my thoughts on that until I have researched it. For the short term, it is an effective means of GH reduction and lowering pH of tanks/water with high KH.

[avex30]

If you are using gex soil do monitor. I personally start with gex red packet. Soil problem start on the 3rd month onwards

[stormhawk]

My GEX soil - mix of green and red - is still buffering the water at 6.8 or so, this is even with the presence of Sudo sand in my tank. That said, my pH pen says the pH is 5.7 so either my drip tester or my pen is bonkers.

Tap water supply for me is pH 7.2, GH 3, KH 3 so it's a little alkaline but all good. However, my tank has GH 1 and KH 1 I think.

All in, you should never rely on the soil to buffer your water. Over time as it loses it's efficiency, you will still need to use other methods to keep the water at the parameters you are aiming for, or re-do the whole tank over again.

chansl, sorry to hear that. Is the soil in question by UP brand? Like this:
http://www.up-aqua.com/00-dm-page/up...and-DM-big.jpg

The shopkeeper should not have offered you that soil if you had other products in mind, unless he uses it himself in the display tanks, or has personal experience with it.

[chansl]

My GEX soil - mix of green and red - is still buffering the water at 6.8 or so, this is even with the presence of Sudo sand in my tank. That said, my pH pen says the pH is 5.7 so either my drip tester or my pen is bonkers.

Tap water supply for me is pH 7.2, GH 3, KH 3 so it's a little alkaline but all good. However, my tank has GH 1 and KH 1 I think.

All in, you should never rely on the soil to buffer your water. Over time as it loses it's efficiency, you will still need to use other methods to keep the water at the parameters you are aiming for, or re-do the whole tank over again.

chansl, sorry to hear that. Is the soil in question by UP brand? Like this:
http://www.up-aqua.com/00-dm-page/up...and-DM-big.jpg

The shopkeeper should not have offered you that soil if you had other products in mind, unless he uses it himself in the display tanks, or has personal experience with it.

Yes yes . That is the soil . I bought 4 packet of it . The suppliers said it does not buffer ph to 6.5 for Singapore tap water due to chemical reason . Oh well , i was thinking then why put that on the brand packaging .

May i know what are other ways to keep ph low beside drift wood and peat moss . I bought a mosura ph down so i wonder if it is effective as some seniors mention after putting it in, the ph will return to its normal range which puzzled me. What is the use of mosura soft water? I am using seachem prime , will it affect my shrimps by changing any water parameter ?

Sorry for the many questions. Thank for your help

[stormhawk]

If this was made for the Taiwan market, and shipped here for use in Singapore, then the effects of using the soil should be as advertised. Anything else is just false advertisement on the part of the suppliers, if they had known earlier that this soil will not "work" in local conditions. I don't see how it shouldn't work, unless it does not contain the necessary amount of humic acids that are present in other brands of soil.

I see that you mentioned that you are using ceramic rings in the tank. Some ceramic rings are known to affect the pH of the water, though I have no idea which brands are capable of this. In any case, I'd suggest you get a box of filter peat and place some in a filter bag somewhere in your tank, to help keep the pH low. Seachem Prime should not have any effect on your pH, KH or GH.