A painful experience on soil

[chansl]

Thanks for sharing bro. Sounds similar to what I had read. Other shrimp soils can last around a year, longer if well cared for.
I'll be very careful with just dumping in more soil and having a super thick soil layer at the bottom. If choked, the bottom soil probably will not get enough water flow to help much with the pH but will instead encourage anaerobic bacteria growth, producing the classic rotten egg smell. How thick the soil should be is dependent on soil type, bioload and waterflow, but a good rule of thumb for me is to stay within 10cm.



Bro, I suggest you do more reading up before ou spend more money to change things since you seemed to be rather new at shrimps.
Your tap's pH is not too alkaline so you probably can continue using it. Most good shrimp soil should be able to lower the pH to 6.5-6.8.
Yes, KH is what prevents the pH from changing. The higher the KH, the more acid the soil must leak to bring down the pH. So check your tap's KH too. High KH water is usually alkaline in pH.
Check your tank's current KH as well. If it's any higher than 4, reduce it by changing water (use water with zero KH please).
Remove all coral based filter media and decorations in the tank too. Any rocks should also be removed if KH remains high in your tank for no reason.

RO water stands for "Reverse Osmosis", where water is forced through a very very fine membrane that filters out almost all impurities. It is a rather costly process in the past but some home kits are now available. If the tank is small, you can even get away with buying bottled RO or distilled water sold by supermarkets.

These "almost pure" water can be used for waterchange as it does not affect pH (some people claims it lower pH, likely due to it's slight acidity from having CO2 dissolve into it).
However, note that long term use of such pure water is not good for shrimps and fishes as it depletes the minerals in the tank, so people have to add those minerals back in separately (taking care not to add KH of course).

That's all I can tell you for now. I'm sure the rest of the bros here will fill in whatever I had missed out.




This is an ion exchange resin. It exchanges ions with the water to "soften" it, mainly through reducing the GH (and KH at the same time) by substituting "softer" ions for the "harder" ones (calcium and megnesium) and through that, decreases the pH.
I cannot be sure this is ideal for the long term, but I shall reserve my thoughts on that until I have researched it. For the short term, it is an effective means of GH reduction and lowering pH of tanks/water with high KH.

Awesome !! Thank you for your detailed explanation. Felt that i had leveled up from the new knowledge i gain. I did research for 2 month before i jump into it. Just irritated that i missed out the details like KH which affects acidity.

Normal mineral water in Shop and Save ( my house only have shop and save ), their distilled water ph is 7.5 . will the soil be able to buffer it ?

[chansl]

If this was made for the Taiwan market, and shipped here for use in Singapore, then the effects of using the soil should be as advertised. Anything else is just false advertisement on the part of the suppliers, if they had known earlier that this soil will not "work" in local conditions. I don't see how it shouldn't work, unless it does not contain the necessary amount of humic acids that are present in other brands of soil.

I see that you mentioned that you are using ceramic rings in the tank. Some ceramic rings are known to affect the pH of the water, though I have no idea which brands are capable of this. In any case, I'd suggest you get a box of filter peat and place some in a filter bag somewhere in your tank, to help keep the pH low. Seachem Prime should not have any effect on your pH, KH or GH.

I agree with you that ceramic rings will increase ph hence i change my rings to bio home plus . I agree that peat will decrease ph but wont it make your water colour brown ? Correct me if i am wrong. Thank

[reiner09]

Awesome !! Thank you for your detailed explanation. Felt that i had leveled up from the new knowledge i gain. I did research for 2 month before i jump into it. Just irritated that i missed out the details like KH which affects acidity.

Normal mineral water in Shop and Save ( my house only have shop and save ), their distilled water ph is 7.5 . will the soil be able to buffer it ?

hmm..you are saying mineral water or distilled water? distilled water usually have 0 gh , most probably 0kh as well and is most likely to be acidic rather than alkaline..if you have an alkaline distilled water, kh might not be 0 afterall..thus the soil have to work harder to buffer against it. I have tried and measured the parameters of a few brands of distilled water, most of them are acidic though..pardon me for my ignorance but i have not seen alkaline distilled water before..

[chansl]

hmm..you are saying mineral water or distilled water? distilled water usually have 0 gh , most probably 0kh as well and is most likely to be acidic rather than alkaline..if you have an alkaline distilled water, kh might not be 0 afterall..thus the soil have to work harder to buffer against it.

Unfortunately the shop and save sell small bottle of distilled water or the 1.5 dansai distilled water from coke. I tested and it was 7.5 !!!! Have you tried ice mountain ?

[reiner09]

Unfortunately the shop and save sell small bottle of distilled water or the 1.5 dansai distilled water from coke. I tested and it was 7.5 !!!! Have you tried ice mountain ?

i doubt dasani brand is distilled water though..it is more of similar to RO water..

Dasani drinking water has undergone stringent filtration processes to purify it and remove particles and impurities. In addition, an ozonation process helps to eliminate harmful micro-organisms.

taken from coca cola singapore site.

[stormhawk]

I agree with you that ceramic rings will increase ph hence i change my rings to bio home plus . I agree that peat will decrease ph but wont it make your water colour brown ? Correct me if i am wrong. Thank

The brownish tint will happen over time. It is a slight drawback, just about the same if you have driftwood or use ketapang leaf in your tanks.

You can use chemical methods like Mosura pH down if you are not keen on the brownish tint.

[chansl]

i doubt dasani brand is distilled water though..it is more of similar to RO water..
taken from coca cola singapore site.

Will they contain kh or gh ? Safe to use ? Just that their ph is high (7.5)

[chansl]

The brownish tint will happen over time. It is a slight drawback, just about the same if you have driftwood or use ketapang leaf in your tanks.

You can use chemical methods like Mosura pH down if you are not keen on the brownish tint.

I am using mosura ph down . Do you know what i can do to reduce kh ? Is it essential for shrimp like they will suffer if it is kh or a zero in kh is the best?

[Matt]

How does mosura softwater helps ? You mean when you age the tap water , you add that in ?

Mosura Softwater is a very potent synthetic resin that would lower 3 factors: pH, GH & KH. As Bro Navanod has highlighted, it works by exchanging ions. Which also means, there will be a need for water flow, a strong and constant one, for it to be effective. As it is very potent, a small amount may reduce your parameters drastically, thus, would advise that you use it moderately and carefully. Best before introducing any livestock.

Guideline: 1-2 flat tablespoon worth for a 40-50L tank (approx. 2ft tank size)

3 possible ways of using it and their pros and cons. (with resin in a tea/coffee filter bag)

1. Hang in tank where water flow is strong. Pro: easy to adjust/remove/monitor especially during trial & error. Con: may be unsightly or lose its efficiency if placement is not quite right.
2. Place in canister filter. Pro: out of sight totally. Con: will need to disturb filter during removal/discontinue of use.
3. Place in aged water tank. Pro: dun need to bother too much even if pH drops drastically. Con: pH of water will rise again soon after leaving the aged water tank and you will need to provide constant aeration to create water flow.

So it sounds like this is not an easy media to use afterall.

For me, I am using methods 1 & 3 concurrently for that tank, and just left it as it is. Will be removing it soon.

My solution to lower pH with minimal adjustments: Check to ensure that GH:4 & KH:0-1 regardless of value of pH. Introduce CO2 & moderate air pump to provide good oxygen level. Install a CO2 checker to ensure adequate level so not to affect livestock too much.

Hope this explains and answers your question.

[chansl]

Mosura Softwater is a very potent synthetic resin that would lower 3 factors: pH, GH & KH. As Bro Navanod has highlighted, it works by exchanging ions. Which also means, there will be a need for water flow, a strong and constant one, for it to be effective. As it is very potent, a small amount may reduce your parameters drastically, thus, would advise that you use it moderately and carefully. Best before introducing any livestock.

Guideline: 1-2 flat tablespoon worth for a 40-50L tank (approx. 2ft tank size)

3 possible ways of using it and their pros and cons. (with resin in a tea/coffee filter bag)

1. Hang in tank where water flow is strong. Pro: easy to adjust/remove/monitor especially during trial & error. Con: may be unsightly or lose its efficiency if placement is not quite right.
2. Place in canister filter. Pro: out of sight totally. Con: will need to disturb filter during removal/discontinue of use.
3. Place in aged water tank. Pro: dun need to bother too much even if pH drops drastically. Con: pH of water will rise again soon after leaving the aged water tank and you will need to provide constant aeration to create water flow.

So it sounds like this is not an easy media to use afterall.

For me, I am using methods 1 & 3 concurrently for that tank, and just left it as it is. Will be removing it soon.

My solution to lower pH with minimal adjustments: Check to ensure that GH:4 & KH:0-1 regardless of value of pH. Introduce CO2 & moderate air pump to provide good oxygen level. Install a CO2 checker to ensure adequate level so not to affect livestock too much.

Hope this explains and answers your question.

Wow !! Thank you . Learnt so much from you . Is CO2 really required ? Because it will affect the shrimps from what i know. May i know how much will a simple CO2 set up cost . I just having christmas moss so dont really need CO2 that much. But i know CO2 will help to keep the water acidity.

[reiner09]

Will they contain kh or gh ? Safe to use ? Just that their ph is high (7.5)

I believe that to be on the safe side, use distilled water such as life,alpheus and giant premium distilled.. they will have obvious specifications that their water is produce by the process of distillation.. brands like dasani most probably went through RO process rather than distillation.. i believe the water produce through distillation is still pure-er compared to RO.

Do note that kh=0 doesn't mean that it is good.. any acidic substance you add into your tank with kh 0 might cause a huge decrease in ph( ph crash) if you do not have any kh to buffer against it.. it is still advisable to have a kh of 1

[Matt]

I am using mosura ph down . Do you know what i can do to reduce kh ? Is it essential for shrimp like they will suffer if it is kh or a zero in kh is the best?

kH is the measurement for presence of Dissolved Carbonates in the water. So check and remove any items that may contribute to it. A popular example: coral chips/branch. A water change will help to reduce provided, the in-coming water is of a lower/zero KH.

[Matt]

Wow !! Thank you . Learnt so much from you . Is CO2 really required ? Because it will affect the shrimps from what i know. May i know how much will a simple CO2 set up cost . I just having christmas moss so dont really need CO2 that much. But i know CO2 will help to keep the water acidity.

CO2 is not required actually, unless you have some plants that require. In shrimp tanks, I would say introduction of CO2 is usually done as a last resort to lower pH. And in my opinion, should be used concurrently with good aeration to provide more dissolved oxygen in water to prevent poisoning the livestock. Also to note that a solenoid on timer is strongly advised (although I am not using that) so that you can turn it off during dark hours.

Cost-wise, new set can easily cost you $100+ or more with a solenoid. A used set that is rampantly seen in buy/sell may cost you anything from $50 to below $100, depending on items included, filled or empty tank, size/type of tank and etc.

[xconnect.]

I use only gex soil red packet for my tank with about four cm thickness my watere is ph7 or below (because got small ketapang leaf which is ok because fire reds like this ph and now breeding but gh abit high(4-5) so to help lower I added a small boiled ketapang leaf to soften abit my tank one year already but now ph not haywire yet so I won't decomm yet and my water change(5%) I change with distilled water tesco from Malaysia sometimes no time I buy ice mountian

[newlife]

Guys...Another advise to take note of...

Bacteria solution and Test kit....
Check for expiry....
Those liquid bacteria have short shelf life...
Expire test kit will give you false reading...
Most of this does not show expiry date...
So you need to check online...google for the product expiry code.

[xconnect.]

Agreed with bro newlife for example mosura shizhen liquid self live quite short that's why they changed to the powder variant and gh kits i suspect selflife also quite cmi I bought I tried my water I think it expired no change one no matter how many drops I put

[newlife]

ADA will always be my choice....

[Navanod]

Agreed with bro newlife for example mosura shizhen liquid self live quite short that's why they changed to the powder variant and gh kits i suspect selflife also quite cmi I bought I tried my water I think it expired no change one no matter how many drops I put

Actually, the change to powder form confirmed my suspicions that it is mainly based on one active ingredient that will degrade once in water.
Kinda OT in this thread. Haha, sorry.

Chansl bro, you seemed to be confused by bottled water types.

Mineral water is collected from mountain streams and springs, full of minerals. It's not what we want as it'll add KH and GH.
RO water is like what I had described earlier. Made by forcing water through fine molecular filter.
Distilled water is made by boiling water and then catching and condensating the steam. Most minerals and impurities will remain behind as they have different boiling point or cannot escape with the steam. It is how clouds and rain are made too. Hehe.
This process is falling out of favor because it's very energy intensive and the boiler needs alot of work to clean. Sometimes there even double distilled water because boiling one time is not pure enough.

[xconnect.]

Actually, the change to powder form confirmed my suspicions that it is mainly based on one active ingredient that will degrade once in water.
Kinda OT in this thread. Haha, sorry.

Chansl bro, you seemed to be confused by bottled water types.

Mineral water is collected from mountain streams and springs, full of minerals. It's not what we want as it'll add KH and GH.
RO water is like what I had described earlier. Made by forcing water through fine molecular filter.
Distilled water is made by boiling water and then catching and condensating the steam. Most minerals and impurities will remain behind as they have different boiling point or cannot escape with the steam. It is how clouds and rain are made too. Hehe.
This process is falling out of favor because it's very energy intensive and the boiler needs alot of work to clean. Sometimes there even double distilled water because boiling one time is not pure enough.

I seen this documentary about ro water the engineer said creating ro plant is very expensive but in the long run it is more practical than distilled plants . these super duper membrane really filter water like on a molecular level and the by product is pure water. The pure water is in fact too pure for human consumption and need to ADD STUFF TO MAKE IT NOT SO PURE... This not so pure words make me avoiding ro water. That's why I'm sticking to distilled water

[chansl]

Hi guys

Thank for your great inputs. Learnt alot. I just bought a few test kit to test.

Gh: 8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KH: 1
ph:6.5 near 7
Ammonia: 1
Nitrite : 0.5

Tap water
GH: 4 !!!!
ph:7.5
kh: 1-2

Errmm, i think the GH is tooo high for crs. I have not add crs so no worry guys ( learnt my mistake for my cherry). I just add the soil yesterday so i think they need time to cycle. The GH value is due to the bonsai structure i place in ( those branches with a heavy rock attached so that it will sink ). If i remove the structure and place a drift wood instead. Will the GH level drop automatically or must i change water again ?

Please feel free to comment. Thank you very much