Wild Common Discus

[Shrimpong]

wild discus are somehow derived from throwback discus is akin

When and where did I say that? Find me where I said that exactly "wild discus are somehow derived from throwback discus"? It's your fantasy and imagination. You love rearranging words to coin new phrase and put them together and argue with it yourself. You deserve an accolade.

[stormhawk]

You are then blinded by your opinion that wild discus is superior to domestic discus. That is the BIG problem here.

I don't buy wild discus. I keep whatever I like and if it's Pigeon Bloods then Pigeon Bloods it is. If I want wild discus I buy wild discus. Neither is superior to the other and both types are appreciated by different people. The one blinded by opinion here is actually you. Perhaps if you could appreciate the wild discus as much as you appreciate domestic discus, then maybe you will understand the viewpoints of others. Remember what you said earlier, that wild discus owners should look at it from a different perspective. In this case, you as a domestic discus keeper, should also look at it from a different perspective.

Throwbacks are individuals who exhibit the characteristics of an ancestral form, rather than the desired characteristics of the breeder's strain.

This statement alone puts paid to your views, simply because it refers to a "cull" from an established strain aka captive bred fish and not to a wild fish. You can call it whatever you want, but the fact still remains that wild fish are not throwbacks. This is the point that you so sorely miss.

[Shrimpong]

I don't buy wild discus. I keep whatever I like and if it's Pigeon Bloods then Pigeon Bloods it is. If I want wild discus I buy wild discus. Neither is superior to the other and both types are appreciated by different people. The one blinded by opinion here is actually you. Perhaps if you could appreciate the wild discus as much as you appreciate domestic discus, then maybe you will understand the viewpoints of others. Remember what you said earlier, that wild discus owners should look at it from a different perspective. In this case, you as a domestic discus keeper, should also look at it from a different perspective.

I don't think wild discus is superior, neither is captive bred discus. I agree with you I don't know how to appreciate wild discus but like you say, you keep whatever you like whether it's pigeon blood or wild, therefore I believe I have your understanding that I don't have to appreciate it the way some do.

At the end of the day, I like to judge a piece of discus the way it looks, phenotype as I already mentioned, I wasn't arguing with where it came from. Bro illumnae wasn't happy with my description of the phenotype being a 'throwback' of our domesticated turquoise discus and insist because this piece came from the wild, it is a superior piece. That I don't agree but like you said earlier, we don't have to.

So lets agree to disagree.

[illumnae]

When and where did I say that? Find me where I said that exactly "wild discus are somehow derived from throwback discus"? It's your fantasy and imagination. You love rearranging words to coin new phrase and put them together and argue with it yourself. You deserve an accolade.

I think there's nothing more to contribute to this discussion. If I came across as saying that wild discus are superior to domestic discus then I do apologise, although combing through my posts I find nothing of that sort in there, in fact I did say it's a matter of opinion and everyone can agree to disagree. While I am keeping wild discus exclusively now, I do greatly appreciate the beauty of domestic discus too and have also kept them before too in the past.

What stormhawk and myself were debating was your use of the terms "throwback" and "phenotype" and your comparison of throwbacks to wilds. Perhaps you didn't express yourself well enough in your first post, then got defensive when others started to point out your errors. That's fair enough, but when you start to throw personal accusations and insults around...then perhaps it's time to take a step back and think about whether this has gone too far

I would also like to respond to your accusation about selling wild discus. I sell nothing except what hobbyists generally sell in the course of the hobby (old equipment, clear old fish to make space for new etc). I have absolutely no financial interest in JZX's importation of wild discus. The only "hand" I had in this relationship was that I introduced the 2 of them to each other. The only "benefit" I gained was that through this relationship, I managed to purchase the fish that I had hoped to purchase for a few years. Please be careful to verify your accusations before you make them This may be a public forum, but you still can't fling such accusations around with impunity.

Finally, there's really no need to be so aggressive. We get your point. You feel that wild discus are no different from undesirable throwbacks of domestic discus. That's your opinion and I don't think anyone disrespects that. Let's just leave it as that and let it go shall we?

[stormhawk]

That's cool Shrimpong, I appreciate your views as well. We all have laid out our stance on this issue and it should not go any further. From here on, let's leave it as it is.

One of these days, maybe we can appreciate some discus, like they ought to be, wild or domestic.

[vinz]

Geez... looks like a huge mis-understanding going on here. I'm glad it has not become a flame war yet, though a tad bit tensed.

I understand that certain parties wish to correct a mis-conception, and that opinion has been expressed with explanation. And that in turned countered as well. All the information is here publicly in the thread and other readers can decide for themselves which is correct. This is a hobby and an informal environment, so there is no need for anyone to win the argument.

I do not foresee either party is going to be convinced that they are wrong, so let's let the thread stand as it is and end THAT discussion here.

Thanks.

[barmby]

Wait for Heiko to come in to join the party : )

[stormhawk]

barmby, that will be a show.

[iostrisciare]

You are then blinded by your opinion that wild discus is superior to domestic discus. That is the BIG problem here.

Throwbacks are individuals who exhibit the characteristics of an ancestral form.

Is that very hard to understand?

You are merely picking chicken bones out of chicken eggs and coining new terms like "Domestic bred throwbacks" and put them in my mouth to make yourself feel like a winner.

Live and let live buddy. Import it and sell it. Those who are happy to buy, will buy it.

But to me it is no different from a turq throwback. Have a good day buddy

hey man,

I think the whole point in this was just to clarify that statement.

Don't take it as an argument, however i think what the whole point of this discussion is that by calling a wild discus a throwback is wrong based on your definition as they are already the ancestors of modern domestics.

Hence, wild discus can't be referred to as a throwback.

I mean, you can't call a rose red a alenquer red right?

Think the use of words is kinda delicate as for a noob or man in the street, throwback is more of an inferior reference.

So yeah. Maybe the reference ancestors of domestic discus would be more PC so to speak.

Chill all yo.

[vinz]

I believe all that needs to said has been said about the definition of throwback. As I said before there are enough info here that readers can read and decide for themselves.

The discussion should stop here. Closing thread.

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