Nothobranchius kilomberoensis FTZ 10-18

[Shi Xuan]

Hi,

Contrary to beliefs that Nothobranchius are easy to breed, I think it's not always the case, because some species can be a tough nut to crack, especially with the erratic hatch rate & henceforth. This species is one good example.

They are very camera shy & darts away almost as soon as anything approaches, so pardon for the poor quality, besides, I took these pictures with my handphone, so it can be a bit blurry but you can clearly tell how beautiful these fishes are.

The males are not very aggressive, nothing compared to most tank bruisers, so I'm able to keep 2 breeding pairs in a 12L tank. These fishes don't get very big, sizes ranging between 4-6cm for males & 3-4cm for the females. Prolific spawners but hatch rate is low, as compared to most Nothobranchius species.

I'll take better photos of these fishes next time, once I get a decent camera but for now, I don't want to disturb their honeymoon, let's see how it goes.

Best regards,
Shi Xuan

[stormhawk]

The male needs some Viagra. I find that fertility is lacking sometimes, even in prolific species. At least you are getting viable eggs. Nice fishes though, the male looks huge. You might want to try to feed them chopped earthworms. I think the increase in protein might help.

[Shi Xuan]

Hi,

The breeding pairs that I have, are 3 months old but the fertility rate is still low. They produce a lot of eggs but for some reasons, most of the eggs turn white during the first 5 days, no matter what method I tried, so I can associate this problem with bad fertilization. Egg developments for this species is erratic, the faster ones turns eyed up at 6 weeks while some eggs can still remain clear for a long period of time, so re-wetting the peat every 2 weeks is extremely crucial.

I'm not too sure if this problem is population specific, for example, the population, VSV 2009-04 for Micromoema xiphophora, has a similar problem. They can produce many eggs but only 20-30% are fertile but again, phenotypically, it might be a different species of Micromoema but I can't be sure.

BTW, is your Simpsonichthys magnificus hatching anytime soon?

[stormhawk]

The VSV Micromoema ought to be a new species. The females look different to the xiphophora females and the pattern of the male is quite different. I have asked Frans for this species before but no success.

My magnificus eggs disappeared in the peat during incubation. Nothing hatched out of that peat either. That was the only peat I collected from them.

[Shi Xuan]

Jianyang, I would like to try Micromoema xiphophora Isla Raton RDB 92-22 someday but definitely not now, for very obvious reasons.

As for the Simpsonichthys magnificus eggs disappearance, that's too bad. I don't have any luck with them either because many turn out to be belly-sliders when my friend & I bought 2 packets of eggs a few months ago. I hope you have better luck next time.

Best regards,
Shi Xuan

[Shi Xuan]

Jianyang, I've inspected their eggs today & found a lot of eyed-up ones in the small clutch of eggs I have. This photo is not taken by me but I would like to show you, that's how they appear to me;

Here's the problem, I have some difficulty trying to hatch them & I've tried all kinds of method, cold peat extract, fresh water, changing 100% of the water etc. but the result is the same. If I delay them for another 2 weeks, these eggs will disappear from the peat altogether. There's an old post regarding this problem;
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...9-Oxygen-Stone
I've went ahead to wet them again, this time, simply aged water at room temperature. I hope I can see fry tomorrow morning I wake up.

[stormhawk]

I've used the oxygen tabs from JBL to good effect, but according to C328 aunty, they do not sell these anymore as the supplier did not send any to the store.

You might want to force hatch them. Go to timebomb's site at www.killies.com on how to do the "chicken walk".

I am going to try pressure hatching my Aphyolebias schleseri eggs tomorrow. By pressure hatching I mean placing the peat in a jar or airtight container, and dropping that container in a larger drum of water or in my case, in my fish tank. With luck I'll get some fry.

[Shi Xuan]

I've used the oxygen tabs from JBL to good effect, but according to C328 aunty, they do not sell these anymore as the supplier did not send any to the store.

You might want to force hatch them. Go to timebomb's site at www.killies.com on how to do the "chicken walk".

I am going to try pressure hatching my Aphyolebias schleseri eggs tomorrow. By pressure hatching I mean placing the peat in a jar or airtight container, and dropping that container in a larger drum of water or in my case, in my fish tank. With luck I'll get some fry.

I have just changed the water in the hatching tub with fresh cold water stored in fridge. I hope this can trigger the eggs to hatch somehow. If it doesn't, I will continue to wait for a few more days or so, before I try force-hatching the eggs again. This is my only last resort if all methods fail to prevail.

I'm trying to force hatch a trio of Callopanchax occidentalis eggs now. Checked the eggs yesterday only to be dismayed to find 3 eyed-up eggs dead & fungusing.

[Shi Xuan]

Guess what, I've managed to force-hatched 2 of the 3 eyed-up Callopanchax occidentalis eggs I have in the peat. The last one was simulated to hatch by adding some baby brine shrimps but it doesn't seem to do very well, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. As for the rest of the eggs, I've decided to water incubate them, since I'm feeling itchy to see how it goes with the cherry shrimps, besides, Callopanchax occidentalis is a semi-annual, similar to the characteristics of all Roloffia.

Back to the main topic, Jianyang, if you haven't pressure-hatched the Aphyolebias schleseri eggs, maybe you can try this if you haven't done it before. Boil/microwave some peat, collect the peat water & store it in the fridge. I made a terrible mistake by re-using this peat extract, that's probably why some of the eggs didn't hatch or died, due to some contaminants in this dirty water. Once you have collected the fry, re-wet the peat again, chances are, there might be more fry & once it's exhausted, dry it. As for the Nothobranchius kilomberoensis eggs, I added more fresh peat & changed the water, replacing it with the peat water I collected from boiling some peat. Let me know how it goes with the Aphyolebias schleseri once you hatched them. Good luck!

[Shi Xuan]

Jianyang, if you are reading this post, I have half a dozen N.kilomberoensis fry now & I am very happy these eggs made it. I only have to focus on raising the fry well. I hope they turn out to be healthy & prolific adults. I should have a total of 9 fry but three of them turned out to belly-sliders. They are the result of 4 consecutive re-wettings done over the past three days. I think it could have been better if the parents have been more productive.

As for the Callopanchax occidentalis, I am losing hope if I ever get to keep it going till the next generation. I have a 2cm & a newly-hatched fry & a couple of surviving eggs which seem to be in diapause. The better one has some advanced embryonic development but definitely not ready. I hope these eggs don't fungus & I can have at least a pair. They are really nice fishes!

[stormhawk]

Congratulations on the kilomberoensis fry. My eggs from China just arrived so I'm happy too.

Regarding the schleseri, only 2 fry hatched but they did not survive. I have no idea why they died in the hatching tray. One was stuck hatching out of the egg. The rest of the eggs are still in diapause with some development going on.

[Shi Xuan]

These fry came from the first peat I collected. I have another container of peat but the eggs are still clear. As for the parents, I think it's time to separate the sexes once I collect the peat for the third time. No idea how it fare but I hope they can be more productive after the separation & conditioning.

Look at the bright side for the Aphyolebias schleseri. There's still eggs so all hope is not lost, perhaps, they might have a better hatch rate the next time you wet them. As for the 2 fry that didn't survive, it happened to me as well. I got two healthy Callopanchax occidentalis fry collected from the peat but oddly, one of them "melted" away. I searched the container for it but to no avail. The third one seems to be prematurely hatched & so I can understand why it passed on. Nothing good comes out of fry that got stuck during hatching, most likely, they might turn out to be the weaker fishes when they mature.

As for the eggs that you got from China, what species are they suppose to be?
The eggs of Cynodonichthys tenuis 'Rio Papaloapan' & Aphyosemion exiguum 'Ngomlebele BLLMC 05-10' are suppose to reach both Kwek Leong & me by now but there's a miscommunication with the seller & had the eggs sent by registered mail instead of EMS, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Well, I hope it arrives by this week though.

[stormhawk]

Ordered 2 from the seller, Austro. nigripinnis Sagastome and Simp. flagellatus Malhada NP 06-09. Took longer than expected, given that there's daily flights from Guangzhou to Singapore.

If you purchased from who I think it is, good luck. The first time I had Cynodontichthys tenuis was from Todor Metchkov, aka metcho on Aquabid. He shipped them via registered mail in a packet of soggy peat and they survived. However, transit time was 8 days or so from date of posting. I only trust his method when it comes to shipping Rivulus eggs.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...Rio-Papaloapan

I posted this thread back in 2005.

[Shi Xuan]

As far as I know, Metcho doesn't send any eggs at this time of the year, in fact, it appears to be so for most killikeepers, so, no, definitely not from Metcho but another Bulgarian seller. The transition time has since become longer & it can take more than two weeks just for a mail to arrive. I guess it might have been due to less frequent flights between Sofia & Singapore, which might have caused such a delay. It is ok for annual eggs but it can really be devastating for coldwater killies, especially Aphyosemion exiguum, which is sold by the same person as well.

I think I know who you bought those eggs from. He's got quite a good reputation in Aquabid from what I see. Meanwhile, I am still waiting to see if I can acquire any Fundulopanchax avichang eggs...

[stormhawk]

I can arrange something for the Fp. avichang, but that might be later, when the temperatures are higher in Europe.

[Shi Xuan]

Checked the peat I've collected today. Nothing good at all. The egg production has seemingly dropped & even the fertility rate isn't anywhere better than the first two collections. I counted 10 eggs altogether & have decided to try water incubating them with a couple cherry shrimplets in a shallow container of water with a wad of java moss. Let's see how it goes this time.

As for the pairs, I'm going to separate them & condition them soon. Keeping my fingers crossed.
The good thing is, I have half a dozen of two weeks old fry, beautiful fishes, even the eyes of the fry are blue, just like the lampeyes.

[Shi Xuan]

Jianyang, if you are reading this, I've just checked 2 packets of peat I have collected earlier and only a few eggs are left. This Notho lays a lot of eggs but 70-80% are usually gone after a week. Until now, I still don't know the reason for the high infertility.

As per earlier conversation via pm, I have changed the water parameters and separated a trio to a 12L tank now to breed. One of the female is it's mother, I think but she's still laying eggs.

On the side note, do Hyp.auratus fry need paramecium/euglena to begin with?
Kind regards,
Shi Xuan

[stormhawk]

Try not to spawn the sons with the mothers. That might cause inbreeding. I find it best to spawn Nothos in groups rather than trios. The fins will be ragged from the males skirmishing, but this maximises the chances for spawning. You can opt to use fine sand in a breeding bowl instead, like what Ronnie did recently with his eggersi. Easier to sift the eggs then transfer them to fresh peat.

As for the auratus, the fry can start off with microworm and some green water. Paramecium/Euglena is perfect but past the 1st week or so the fry may ignore them, or eat them when they are extremely hungry.

[Shi Xuan]

I tried group spawning before. It doesn't work as well and the male I used, is the best out of the group. The remaining ones don't have a good shape or color. I find that the females are easily over-spawned and stressed when there are too many males, so I prefer to switch males or use more females but I have a lot of males & only one female from this hatch, so spawning with the mother is the only viable option left, if I want more eggs.

I have read how some old killie strains are bred for decades and still show vigor although there's not much genetic variability left in these fishes. Therefore, I think inbreeding is not a problem, as long as the breeders are carefully selected to rid off the bad genes.

[stormhawk]

That is true, but it pays to be diligent. As what Ronnie pointed out in the killie talks recently, males and females of a subsequent generation, do not get to mate with their parents from the previous generation, simply because their pool dries out. Perhaps you can partition the tank with the females on one side, males on the other. They only meet for spawning after the females are super fat.

Old strains remain vigorous because of constant out-crossing with fish from other breeders. Long term, I think it might be wise to get another bag of kilomberoensis from a different breeder. That way, you have a fall back should this older line fail. Occasionally, lack of fertility is due to genetic factors rather than environmental.

Given that the kilomberoensis are found at Ifakara, which is also where flammicomantis is found, the pools should be alkaline in nature with pH around 7.5 - 8. Water sources to the east of the Rift Lakes are rich in sodium, as I mentioned to you via PM, so adding some aquarium salt might be useful.