Second attempt at CRS tank in the office!

[zibbie]

20120410_181448.jpg

Tank set up on the 5th APR

IMG-20120414-WA0002.jpg
added Jap Hairgrass on the 13th APR

Substrate: CRS Haven Soil
Additives: ADA Bacter 100, CRS Haven BacterMax (two pumps initially, one pumps weekly after WC)

[zibbie]

On the 13th APR, my boss bought 5 mini CRS (i think is juveniles) because he didnt know that i need to cycle my tank for three weeks.
Anyways i just condition the shrimps by putting one table spoon of tank water into the plastic every 15 min for 3 hours.

On the 17th, i found one dead shrimp, 18th another one, 3rd shrimp's body was never found.

Went to buy test kits to check my water parameter over the weekend.

[huizhong]

i like the "botak" tree decoration in the middle. seems like crs haven always have these nice stuff. wonder how they make it

[zibbie]

Ammonia: 2 - 4PPM
Nitrate: 0.25 PPM
PH: 6.5 - 7
KH: 2
GH: 3 drops / 54 PPM

I use the water cooler water to top up the tank and WC weekly 20%

i know the KH and GH are too low and i need to bring down ammonia and nitrate....

I need to ask shrimps experts here, other than using chemicals, is there another safer ways to do changes to the tank?

Thanks!

[zibbie]

i like the "botak" tree decoration in the middle. seems like crs haven always have these nice stuff. wonder how they make it

Hi Hui Zhong,

the boss told me it is coral tree / branch.. love it too!

[zibbie]

Today (23rd APR) i added one big and one small nerite snails to the tank...

and one of the CRS molted over the weekend.

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Office has AC till 6PM and no AC over the weekend.

[Ecalyte]

Your ammonia readings are telling you that your tank is not cycled at all. There are ways of reducing this value chemically but that will not change the fact that it hasnt finished cycling. If you want to keep CRS why would u want a higher KH value? Eventually u will be stuck with a higher pH value and have dying CRS. Also by making the kH higher and forcing the pH higher.. You are overworking the soil and will deplete it much faster than its intended lifespan

Already your pH is hovering above the recommended value for keeping CRS.. But ultimately the factor that will prevent you from having success with keeping CRS in your environment is the lack of temperature stability. Oftentimes u will find dead shimps when you get back to work on Monday due to the high temperatures that the tank has been experiencing over the weekend.

My suggestion is to keep fire reds instead.. Your tank conditions are far better suited for them.. In fact they're great for neocaridinas.. So look out for your sunkists, yellow, or chocolate

[zibbie]

Your ammonia readings are telling you that your tank is not cycled at all. There are ways of reducing this value chemically but that will not change the fact that it hasnt finished cycling. If you want to keep CRS why would u want a higher KH value? Eventually u will be stuck with a higher pH value and have dying CRS. Also by making the kH higher and forcing the pH higher.. You are overworking the soil and will deplete it much faster than its intended lifespan

Already your pH is hovering above the recommended value for keeping CRS.. But ultimately the factor that will prevent you from having success with keeping CRS in your environment is the lack of temperature stability. Oftentimes u will find dead shimps when you get back to work on Monday due to the high temperatures that the tank has been experiencing over the weekend.

My suggestion is to keep fire reds instead.. Your tank conditions are far better suited for them.. In fact they're great for neocaridinas.. So look out for your sunkists, yellow, or chocolate

Hi Ecalyte,

Thanks for your long comment, much appreciated it!

I really wanna keep CRS as they attract me the most... Please dont ask me to give up now!!

Can you explain why the tank is still not cycled after 2.5 weeks, i mean is it cycling now or it has not even started?

I thought i need a higher KH value because higher KH = better PH buffering capacity?
And higher GH will give them better nutrients through minerals presented in the tank?

For temperature stability, can i get a clip on fan for the tank which will be on at night and weekends as there is no place for chiller at my work station.

BTW, my tank is 1FT.

Thanks for your kind advice!

[Ecalyte]

Let me answer your questions one by one

Tank Cycling
There are many reasons as to why your tank is not cycled after 2.5 weeks. First of many, who mentioned that a tank can be completely cycled in 2.5 weeks? There are ways of speeding the process of cycling, but these are methods for the experienced.. which includes heavy daily water changes. Cycling has probably started, but we won't know for sure since you haven't tested any Nitrite readings. The fact that you did not straight away know that your tank is not fully cycled based on your Ammonia reading, and your perception that cycling is based on time will indicate that you don't know what tank cycling is about..

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

Read it, and understand it fully.. then you will be more educated on what to look out for as an indication of complete cycling. You judge a tank's full cycle by readings of Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate..

kH (Calcium Carbonate)
The use of KH is to buffer pH yes. But you have to understand why you want to buffer pH, and whether or not it's good for your situation. You are trying to keep CRS that require lower pH, but are taking steps to buffer pH higher. Doesn't make sense. You want to achieve pH value of about 6 - 6.5. People who use kH in a lower pH environment are mostly planted tank enthusiasts. Why? Because they dose CO2. Without kH buffering the CO2 will swing the pH way too much.

GH (General Hardness)
In our aquarium, this represents only two things; Calcium and Magnesium. Too low, and our shrimps will die due to lack of calcification of their shells, too much.. and they'll die of too much calcification. So it's not a case of higher is better.. it's a case of knowing what you need. There are so many different minerals that we need for our shrimps to thrive.. GH is not a full indicator.

Tank Size
I'm going to jump the gun and say that this tank of yours is not a 1ft cube. So at the most, you have about 15L of potential maximum water volume. From your pictures, I can also see that you're running only a HOF. This would be fine if you control the population of your tank.. no more than 20 shrimps. The problem however lies in the fact that you have far less than 15L. Your tank is not filled to the brim with water (it shouldn't be), and you have way too much soil for the size of your tank. This all contribute to less water volume in your tank. At most, you have 10L. That is very.. VERY little. Why is this significant? Because at such small water levels.. even water evaporation will change your mineral concentration in the water. This will lead to parameter fluctuations. This will be compromised even further if you decide to go through with your plan of using a fan to cool the temperature. Come Monday, your tank will have only half the water it started with. So you start thinking, ok.. then I'll just top it up with aged tap water right? Wrong. Let me give you an example with TDS values as a variable.

Let's say you start with 10L of water with 100 TDS value. After 1L of water has been evaporated, you will have around 110 TDS value in 9L of water. So then you decide to top up 1L of water with aged tap water. Depending on whether or not you added more minerals, your tap water has a base value of 80 TDS. So you've just added 80ppm TDS to your tank. More and more of this.. eventually you'll end up with 300ppm TDS and you have no idea how you got there. The only way to rectify this is to do massive water changes that will eventually kill more of your shrimps. You see where I'm going with this?

I know you don't want me to discourage you from keeping CRS, but right now.. you don't have the required equipment, circumstances.. and sorry to say, knowledge to keep these guys alive. You will continue to buy more shrimps.. and you will continue to lose them. This isn't me trying to be discouraging, this is me explaining to you what will happen 100%. Hopefully the other forum bros here will share my opinion on this matter.

Start with the Neocaridinas, enjoy them.. learn about shrimp keeping from your experiences with them. So when you do have the required equipment, circumstances and knowledge, you will be held in good stead to start your journey with CRS. Fish keeping is one thing... shrimp keeping is a totally new ball game.

[Ecalyte]

If you are adamant on keeping CRS, then you really need to consider the following options

- 1ft cube at least.
- chiller
- canister filter (Eheim 2211 is enough for the cube)

With your current experience.. nothing less with suffice.

[zibbie]

OMG your estimation is good!! I just measured my tank again: 35CM x 20CM x 20CM (water height) = 14 Litres.

sorry i assumed that my tank will be cycled in two - three weeks as was advised by shop owner that i can intro first batch of CRS into tank on Day 14.. plus i thought pumping BacterMax will speed up the process.

Noted on KH and GH, will not artificially increase it. Will add minerals instead.

Tank size wise, i am intending to keep about 10 pieces of CRS for easy maintaince + something to gaze at during work...

ok this is depressing. i need to go and reflect upon self

[gryphon]

Another thing you can consider is to have an airstone. Using a HOF does not aerate the water much. By aerating the water properly, your benifical bacterial will multiply faster and hence cycling process is faster.

I am having a 1ft cube with 2213 in my office which also switches off aircon like yours. To minimize evaporation, I use a digital timer and set the fan to run (2hr) and stop (1hr) rather than continously. So far working well and I have berried shrimps and shrimplets growing up well.

[zibbie]

Another thing you can consider is to have an airstone. Using a HOF does not aerate the water much. By aerating the water properly, your benifical bacterial will multiply faster and hence cycling process is faster.

I am having a 1ft cube with 2213 in my office which also switches off aircon like yours. To minimize evaporation, I use a digital timer and set the fan to run (2hr) and stop (1hr) rather than continously. So far working well and I have berried shrimps and shrimplets growing up well.

Hi Gryphon, thanks giving me some hope to this..

Could u please take a photo of ur tank and upload here? For my reference.

How much is ur digital timer and suppose u can get from the regular lfs right?

[Ecalyte]

Gryphon uses pure distilled water for top ups and a canister filter. If you follow these practices then you should be ok for the hardier shrimps.

I suggest you buy them from a forumer here that has been breeding his CRS in 27deg environment.. You dont need a 2213, but at least get a 2211 (EHEIM canister filter)

Perhaps you can contact bro Gryphon on how he does his processes, as I know that he has gone through many trials and errors to make his setup viable

[gryphon]

Hi Gryphon, thanks giving me some hope to this..

Could u please take a photo of ur tank and upload here? For my reference.

How much is ur digital timer and suppose u can get from the regular lfs right?

My tank is very simple. Using Africana and ADA new amozionia soil and inside are 3 driftwood with different moss. Using 2213 with lily pipe and a airpump with airstone.

LFS usually sells the normal timer where you need to adjust the time by pushing the little tabs. I got my digital timer at HomeFix during their promotion for about $18.

You can get a 2nd hand canister from AQ Marketplace, 2213 more people selling compared to 2211. For top ups I am using 50% distilled with 50% aged tap water. But I monitor my GH every month to check if it shoots up, but so far all is well and GH is 4.

[zibbie]

Good Morning AQ~

Hi Firdaus

I use my office water cooler for top up and WC weekly too.

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Hi Joseph

I found ur shrimp journal but its a two FT journal!
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...shrimp-journal

Thank you all pros for your help!!

[avex30]

Good Morning AQ~

Hi Firdaus

I use my office water cooler for top up and WC weekly too.

20120423_181302.jpg

Hi Joseph

I found ur shrimp journal but its a two FT journal!
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...shrimp-journal

Thank you all pros for your help!!

DO check and ensure that is distill water.

[gryphon]

Good Morning AQ~

Hi Firdaus

I use my office water cooler for top up and WC weekly too.

20120423_181302.jpg

Hi Joseph

I found ur shrimp journal but its a two FT journal!
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...shrimp-journal

Thank you all pros for your help!!

Good, FOC distilled water
Yup I didn't do any posting of my office 1ft cube. I started with my office tank before my CFO agrees to me setting up a 2ft tank at home. My office 1ft cube is like a dumping ground , there are low grade CRS, and mixed shrimps inside like Fire Yellow, Fire reds, rilli which I do not mind them cross breeding.

[zibbie]

Dear All Bros / Sis for your great help and encouragement

Am reporting back the latest progress of my fish tank..

Since the last update, no casulties in my tank, 2 big and 2 small CRS remained.

So I went to buy four more Crimson to add into the tank on the 4th May.

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Two Crimson making friends with the old bird.

[zibbie]

Just tested the tank last night,
ammonia less than 0.25 PPM
Nitrites 0
KH 1-2
GH 4-5

PH (just lost the test kit )