Are we simply over-filtering?

[paradox]

I was just wondering on the filtration used by many of us.

I've scoured almost all posts on this forum and other forums when looking for ideal canister for my tank. Most people would recommend an Eheim 2215 for 2-3 ft tank, 2213 or 2211 for 1-1.5 ft tank. However, this is way over what is recommended on the boxes of these filters (and also of other brands).

I just went to Eheim's website. 2215 has an output flow of 620l/h with max tank size of 390+ litres. A 2 feet tank (2x1x1) has only 54L of water! A 3 feet has only 81L!

On top of this, many of us use pre-filters etc for even more filtration and to cultivate more BB. Are we simply being kiasu (colloquialism for "fear of losing")? I myself use a 2215 in series with a dummy canister for my 1.5ft tank. For the sake of discussion, let's remove chillers from the equation which reduces the flowrate of water.

What I'm really interested in is if anyone has done a test to see if there really is visible improvement in using many canisters, or a higher flowrate canister compared to using what is recommended (from what i've read the recommended flowrate should be about 5 times the tank volume). Has anyone actually tested this before? Like two tanks of similar fauna, eg. CRS from the same parent, same brand of filter, same brand of media, but different size filters and different amount of media.

Of course theoretically, more BB is better, and yes, I agree totally with that. But can the effects actually be seen? I guess one of the hardest fauna to keep which is sensitive would be shrimps. Yet i've seen setups of people with like a 16 tank rack with only sponge filters, and they even have stuff like BKK.

Anyway, please don't flame me, my purpose of posting this is simply to learn more about this hobby! And to see if its simply a placebo effect.

[cdckjn]

I read from somewhere that with cansister filter or in this case any pump to have a trunover rate of 5 times, that is to say that in a hour, the total voulme of the water flows through the pump at least 5 times. So in this case of a 3ft of 81L and times 5 times, we have about 400 litres about the flow rate of the 2215. that's my thougjts.

[tetrakid]

These days, as in everything else, many consider it hip to to get the most expensive canister filter. Canister filters, which have more powerful motors than simpler filters, are good for the bigger tanks. If one only has a 2ft or 3 ft tank, there's really no point in getting powerful canisters, if only not to waste running power, as they are run 24/7.

[BFG]

I do not follow the crowd. For me, quality, reliability and ease of getting spare part are the choices I want to have plus lower wattage. Im a fix it and forget it person and do not want to fiddle again with equipments that Ive installed already. Quality always have a price attached to it and if a person says they can't use a certain brand because of budget, I say they did not planned properly or enter into the hobby too fast. There are ways to get the best equipment, just that they do not know how.

[tetrakid]

Many who begin to join the fish-keeping hobby are able to afford splurging on the best equipment and also expensive fishes.

But considering that fish-keeping is a very demanding hobby in terms of knowledge, it would be better if beginners do a lot of reasearch or enquiries before jumping in. After all, it is sad for anyone to see their fish dying not long after they have started in the hobby.

[paradox]

These are interesting responses. I guess most of are brought up in an environment where more expensive means better. This refers to the brand of filter i guess. I for one feel more at ease using a better brand knowing its the best in the market, and that it probably have lesser chances to clog / breakdown, as well as the availability of spare parts.

However what I'm most curious about is the size of our filters. Most of us have (i'm guessing) 10X flowrate of the volume of our tank. That seems like alot right! And when Eheim made their filters, I'm sure they considered the amount of media their canisters can hold in relation to tank size. How much BB do we need actually!

[felix_fx2]

Many who begin to join the fish-keeping hobby are able to afford splurging on the best equipment and also expensive fishes.

I don't see myself falling into this category. But quite confident at least 50% getting larger tanks get canisters initially.

TS, I'll go for media volume and reliability. More bb is better then less bb.

[Shadow]

For me filter is depend on the what inside the tank, hardscape and pants as well not just fauna. For empty tank with couple of fishes only 2-3 times the water volume is enough but you might want to increase it if you plan for higher bioload.

For planted tank, you want to increase even further. Not because of bioload but because those hardscape and tall plants will block the flow. Poor flow will cause plant to stunt and increase the change for algae. Alternatively, you can also add wave maker to improve flow but some people (including me) don't like adding thing into the tank, less equipment in the tank as possible for aesthetic purpose.

Filter media will also reduce the flow, different filter media have different impact. ADA bio rio for example, will be very pack after a while and reduce flow considerably compare to bio ring.

Adding Chiller, CO2 reactor, prefilter, UV, etc, all this will reduce flow. Check for Hmax beside flow, Hmax will roughly tell you how much load you can put in series while maintaining the same flow. Unfortunately, so far I only see Eheim that include Hmax on their spec.

[BFG]

These are interesting responses. I guess most of are brought up in an environment where more expensive means better. This refers to the brand of filter i guess.

For my personal experience, expensive does not mean better. I have been burnt by buying expensive equipment ( 1k for a pump ) which came from a german company, for my marine tank. I thought that by paying a premium price, I am getting a premium pump which actually consume lower wattage. The downside to this was the pump was only usable for 2 years and when it died, the lfs wanted nearly half of the cost of the pump to repair it. I nearly flipped out. The saying, buyers beware, comes to mind. If you can see the actual pump right now, you wouldn't believe I've been using it for 2 years, it actually still look brand new, even the lfs thought so too! The reason is because I took care of my equipment as I do not have a high paying salary, that actual pump cost me nearly a month pay.

Currently, the pump is being replaced by the workhorse Eheim 1260. Was using this in the beginning and still using it now.

[tetrakid]

Ideally, complete beginners should start off in this hobby by buying a small tank (eg. 2ft), and a $2 packet of nice Platys. Plus get some favourite plants, gravel, pumps, filters and whatever one fancies. Even the most expensive things, if one has the dough. There is no substitute for a proper learning curve and experience. But under no circumstances must a beginner buy any expensive fish.

If one can succeed in keeping the Platys strong and healthy for 6 months, one would qualify and be ready to buy more expensive fish. But not before.

If one starts off with one's dream fish, one is doomed from the start, as the day will inevitably come when one loses the expensive fish in great disappointment.

[Navanod]

Overfiltering has it's benefits. It can buffer against sudden spikes from a dead fish, allows higher stocking density in the future and one can clean or replace some of the filter media without impacting the overall filtering capacity too badly.
However, this overfiltering should not be just packing as much filter media and pre-filters into the system as possible. As mentioned above, flow rate is important too.
Without a good flow, most of the filter media will not be housing bacteria because they cannot survive.

[tetrakid]

As long as an optimal flow rate (throughflow) is present, it does not matter much anymore. What matters more is the reserve capacity of the BB-charged biomedia.
Having a 'heavy duty' BB colony matters more than anything else.

[framejumb0]

Flow rate, surface area and porousity of media plays a big role. Turnover rate is the next thing.
Also there are bio filtration methods like K1 moving bed filter, driven by air flow which doesn't require power filters yet do superb bio filtration.
Over filtration gurantees that fluctuations of bio load will not effect fish and buffer variations of toxic levels.
This brings peace of mind to aquarist.

[tetrakid]

Any discussion on bio media materials? I notice that ceramic rings do not have good adhesion for BB organism material, as it can unintentionally wash off rather easily without scrubbing at all, leaving a clean surface on them. What material is best for the BB culture colony?

Flow rate, surface area and porousity of media plays a big role.

[paradox]

Thanks for all the responses. I think it's quite clear that almost all of us here feels more at ease with a bigger capacity for storing media and a strong enough flowrate (which often is more than what is recommended on the boxes of the canisters). This is quite expected and I feel into this category as well. I guess next time if i have the time, space and money, I would start an experiment between two tanks of exactly the same flora and fauna and see if one produces better results for breeding and for the colours of our fauna (for me, it'll be shrimps).

However, the main thing that motivated me to post this is that, my external canister died. I was not aware that it died until about 3 days later, and after that, all I could do was hook up a small HOF which I had and stuffed some wool inside. After this, it took me another 3 days before I purchased my new filter. Hence my shrimps were without any proper filter for about 6 days, and yet I had no casualties. I'm keeping CRS and Cherries. There were even two berried CRS and today they are still doing fine. This made me realise that maybe the filters aren't as crucial as we deem them to be and that there are perhaps alot of BB in our tank already. Note that i have a 1.5 feet tank with about 40 CRS and 40 cherries. Hence I was curious as to how come i was so lucky that my shrimps were still doing fine.

[tetrakid]

I can only insist that the HOF did all the necessary 'magic', and at lower cost too, lol.
By the way, did you buy that replacement canister?

[magpie]

Thanks for all the responses. I think it's quite clear that almost all of us here feels more at ease with a bigger capacity for storing media and a strong enough flowrate (which often is more than what is recommended on the boxes of the canisters). This is quite expected and I feel into this category as well. I guess next time if i have the time, space and money, I would start an experiment between two tanks of exactly the same flora and fauna and see if one produces better results for breeding and for the colours of our fauna (for me, it'll be shrimps).

However, the main thing that motivated me to post this is that, my external canister died. I was not aware that it died until about 3 days later, and after that, all I could do was hook up a small HOF which I had and stuffed some wool inside. After this, it took me another 3 days before I purchased my new filter. Hence my shrimps were without any proper filter for about 6 days, and yet I had no casualties. I'm keeping CRS and Cherries. There were even two berried CRS and today they are still doing fine. This made me realise that maybe the filters aren't as crucial as we deem them to be and that there are perhaps alot of BB in our tank already. Note that i have a 1.5 feet tank with about 40 CRS and 40 cherries. Hence I was curious as to how come i was so lucky that my shrimps were still doing fine.

Hi paradox, did your CRS breed in your 1.5ft tank setup? How many shrimps (CRS and Cherry) did you start off with?

[paradox]

I can only insist that the HOF did all the necessary 'magic', and at lower cost too, lol.
By the way, did you buy that replacement canister?

Yes I did. Haha. Bought an Eheim 2215. I was prepared to lose all my shrimps already, so was really happy when none died.

Hi paradox, did your CRS breed in your 1.5ft tank setup? How many shrimps (CRS and Cherry) did you start off with?

Yes, this is first time it got pregnant. So i havent got any new crs shrimplets. However the cherries have been breeding like rabbits. There are always at least one berried cherry in the tank. I had an equipment failure once and lost many shrimps, so I'm not sure how many are new born and etc.

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[Shadow]

Does your tank planted? Because healthy plant will take ammonia.

[paradox]

Does your tank planted? Because healthy plant will take ammonia.

There's only Taiwan moss and US fissidens in the tank. Quite abit of them though.

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