[HELP] Weird tank parameters after ~2weeks into fishless cycling

[felix_fx2]

Can ask why you didn't add when You started to cycle the tank?

Doubt it will affect parameters much, but although inert don't make starting a tank in this manner a habit.

Look at other folks setting up their tank. And you will find that you are odd one out.

If it was other substrate, Then you'll be in for a "cloud of ammonia".

[VSGenesis]

You win already bro. From feeling sleepy in office, you woke me up.

You are supposed to add substrate, dw, rocks, plants then flood tank. Then cycle tank.

You fry chicken. Tou turn on stove.You add chicken. Wait till hot then you add oil. You forgot the base. The oil or rather the substrate. That's what you are doing. Bro, take a step back. Relax. Deep breath and find out what goes into the tank before you flood it. I know it can be exciting but adding substrate after flooding, you gonna mess up your tank.

[kotaaro]

there were rocks during initial cycling, heeded you guys's advice and took those out for fear of the paint that was peeling-off from the rocks. tank is bare bottom since.

gotten these black diamond quartz from a forumer, was thinking to add them after i finished cycling.

till now, it has alwaz been ammonia that is still showing showing, surprisingly, nitrite and nitrate are okay.

So what do i do now? do i add in the substrate or not?

[kotaaro]

and why would substrate be of an important factor during cycling of tank?

from what i read, it seems that BB grows more in the filter and biomedia compared other places like decorations and gravel?

and these gravel which i have now states that it will not affect water parameters.

and how would adding the substrates now affect my tank?

thanks.

[VSGenesis]

Hi bro,

My bad. Perhaps i misunderstood you so Let's start over.

Here are a few questions, i would like to ask and once answered, we will be able to assist you step by step okay.

1. What is the theme of this tank? Planted or a non planted tank?
2. What material are you using? Example driftwood.
3. What fauna will you be adding to the tank?
4. What filtration, co2 system if any and lighting are you using?

Each question asked above will lead to further questions which will help you decide what you need to do.

Is that okay with you? Let me lnow what you think and we work it out from there.

Cheers

[kotaaro]

No problem I could really use your help here too

1) It's a non-planted tank.

2) What do you mean by material used? If you are asking for what i have already placed in my tank, it would be a piece of driftwood, very few small stones(non-painted ones) which i left it there as i had a tough time removing them all the previous time, and a stick of airstone. Items still pending to be placed in tank are substrate and two plastic plants (medium sized).

3) Puffer fish. Figure of 8. Will be converting to low-end brackish after tank is cycled and fishes are introduced.

4) Using a simple OFH for my 2ft tank, with 1 layer of ceramic rings at the bottom, top with filter sponge/wool. Have a 2ft light as well, but don't think it is enough for live plants.

Awaiting your reply

[felix_fx2]

and why would substrate be of an important factor during cycling of tank?

from what i read, it seems that BB grows more in the filter and biomedia compared other places like decorations and gravel?

and these gravel which i have now states that it will not affect water parameters.

and how would adding the substrates now affect my tank?

thanks.

1. BB grows everywhere.
2. You know they also grow from your reply. Now ask yourself do you want more BB or less BB?
3. Quartz after washed should not affect as it is inert, provided you washed clean the residue. Since you mention USED.
4. I mentioned OTHER substrate. The compressed grains aka Aquasoil. Example Gex/ADA amazonia2.
5. Provide full specs & picture. 1 picture of tank 1 picture of filter can already tell the folks alot.

I see everyone has and will be putting wild gueses as part of the advice, kindly let him provide a better understand to us rather then guessing and feeding information.

FYI: Your fishless cycling thread has become a normal cycling thread.

[VSGenesis]

BB (Beneficial Bacteria) grows everywhere. It even grows on the roots of your plants.
Bacteria is everywhere.

Substrate
Add it into the empty tank. Before doing that, wash it. its not aquasoil like ADA Amazonia or GEX, its quartz so wash it.
Height of the substrate in the foreground depends on you. But make it slope up to back Height of the back, double the front. This gives a sense of depth.

Next.

Material
Add your rocks and driftwood. You did not complain about the dw floating, so i assume its waterlogged. Adjust accordingly till you are satisfied.

Fake Plants
Make sure to wash it first. Plant it in. Have patient, adjust accordingly till you are satisfied. Just to note, eventhough this is a non planted tank, you can tie moss to your dw.

Equipment
is it cannister, hof, ohf or internal filter? For internal, put it in after substrate, so that you can later on use the plants or the material to hide it from view. This part just my opinion. If its a new filter, make sure to wash the pads, media and what not.

Flood
Add water slowly into the tank. Otherwise it'll disturb your substrate. Use the same water you have now. WC 10-20% weekly. The guys are doing 20-50% because theirs is planted.

Cycle. Please do not add any bacterlife or anything like that into the water. Do not add ammonia or what not. Absolutely nothing. Can i ask why so much concern that ammonia is at 1? You're not keeping crs. Some people dont bother with testing the water. They use eye power. They wait 1 to 1.5 months. They add fauna.

Good luck

[kotaaro]

thanks for the reply. i have added the substrate and fake plants into the tank already as of yesterday night. would adjust the height of the substrate tonight.

Im keeping puffers, and from what i know and read about in other forums as well, puffers are scaleless fish, and would require 0 ammonia level so that it will not burn their skin and in return make it stressed out. that's why im trying my best to make ammonia levels to as close to zero as possible, but its at 1-2ppm from my last reading...hopefully after all the extra surface area i have added, the BB can grow faster.

And shouldn't the main purpose of cycling a tank is to reach the ideal ammonia 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate <20?

regarding ammonia levels, is it due to me not using a dechlorinator that can reduce chloramine? I threw my initial one away and bought Seachem prime. Should i do a partial water change using that say, tonight or tomorrow? would it help with the ammonia level? or would only doing partial water changes helps with ammonia levels?

my filter is OHF, theres ceramic rings and blue sponge in it.

[VSGenesis]

Okay one more time. And please read slowly what we're gonna suggest to you okay.

With the added substrate, you'll allow bb to colonise there.
1) when doing water change, do 20% water change on every Sunday
2) add prime into bucket, add tap water to bucket. Scoop water using pail and pour back into bucket. Do a few times. If you worry, wait awhile. Pour into tank slowly. (not for everyone especially shrimp keeper okay)
3) as you got no plants, can i suggest a bubble curtain? Its where you have this long tube place at the back. Attached to air. Pump. Bubbles will rise like a curtain. This will increase gas exchange. Meaning more oxygen gets into your tank. The driftwood will hide the equipment at the back and it looks nice. Remember aeration is important. You got no plants to produce the o2. Must increase your aeration. If you do not have surface agitation, then no gas exchange
4) very very very important. I'm pretty sure, your water ammonia level now is not zero. Do not add anything inside. I mean it. Dont add any bacter. I dont understand what chloromine have to do with ammonia. So i'm not sure what you are talking about here. Are you talking about prime?
5) you do know what produces ammonia right? The left over food will rot and the waste from the fish produces ammonia. So there will be a slight increase of ammonia before the bb converts it to nitrite.
6) can tell me what is your water parameter now? Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

Water cycling is not rocket science. If you read through the entire forum on cycling, its all the same.
Before flooding the tank, you must have a plan. Step by step what goes into the tank. We were not aware that you do not have a substrate. Members ask you to remove the painted rocks and that is a good good advise. Avoid all this coloured stones. Even marbles.
Cycling a tank is easy but must have patience. Adding things into it and not knowing the consequences is bad.
Add substrate
Add material
Add fake plants
Add filtration
Add bubble curtain (usual air stone works fine)
Add water
Add a pinch of fish food daily for a week or two (it'll rot and provide the ammonia to start cyling)
Monitor weekly water parameter
Weekly water change at 20-30%
Ammonia will spike in the beginning
When nitrite spike and ammonia drops. it indicates you are half way through.
Ammonia will go down further and nitrite will follow suit. Nirtrate spikes.
Ammonia and nitrite goes zero and nitrate at 10-20ppm.
You are ready to add fauna.

Did you read? I did not say anything about adding ammonia or bacter. These items are not for starters. Its best to learn the basic first. If you dont mind, then use 1-2 platys in the beginning. Yes they might die. This is a very old method of cycling. I dont use it cause the cycling fish will die. Mulm from another matured tank will help too. Again to do cycling, do it simple. Dont over complicate it. Fish needs oxygen. You're using ohf right? Add air stone or bubble curtain i mentioned. Still water is not right. Water agitation also helps avoid your tank breeding mosquitoes.

What are you going to feed your puffer? Fish food?

[VSGenesis]

Please read okay. Don't selective read the advice given. Most of those who advice you are very experience. More experience than me. Its five pages now. We don't want your fish to die and get discouraged. Cause if you ask again about cycling, i won't reply cos i'll be repeating the same thing.

And i hope once things are right, you do know what food to give your puffer. Get snails for them. Seaview sell them cheap to feed the puffer. You can also breed this snails but ifyou dont know how, then just buy them off the shelf. Puffer dont eat commercial fish food. Frozen blood worm also good. Its true that certain fauna are sensitive but there is a tolerance level.

[felix_fx2]

His cory didn't die.
But his tap water he tested... has FOC ammonia.. does anyone have same thing?

P.S: i do not have No2/No3 tester, i add direct from tap. Add anti chlorine/chloramine 10-15 drops (the brand Genesis, very cheap $2.50. till date only used half of the bottle. dosage 1 drop per gallon.) I don't have puffers as didn't have interest.

[kotaaro]

First of all, i did bought a few puffers initially, sadly i did not read up and all of them died, 6 till date to be exact.

That's why i'm doing the cycling now.

I know the basic of cycling, just that not all webbys specifically spell out what to add and what to do, yes my bad on certain areas but i'm trying. Most of the time, i'm just asking about my ammonia levels, i know my tank is cycling, as there's nitrite spike in the beginning (now zero) and nitrates now. Have been asking this since...i don't know when....i shall ask again, if my tank is partially cycled, why is my ammonia level still at 1-2ppm? it is not dropping whatsoever after so long. By right ammonia should spike, and then goes to zero as it is converted to nitrite, my question is, how is it possible that the bacteria that converts ammonia to nitrite has not matured yet, but the one that converts nitrite to nitrate is there?? Answer me this someone, please...?

As of today, my water parameters are:

Ammonia: 1-2ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20ppm

And trust me, i have read ALOT about puffers, i have a small tank now full of snails which is multiplying like crazy but nothing to feast on them yet..yes i still have lots of frozen brine shrimps and red worms waiting for my puffers as well. I know thread has been dragged on to five pages, but it's like that. My question has not been answered, that's why.

If i'm not serious about this, i would have left this thread hanging and just dump off my tank elsewhere. You won't know how much more i want this tank to cycle completely so that i can finally get some puffers in there..

And of course, thanks once again for your response. Looking forward to more from you guys.

[VSGenesis]

I will not ask why the cory is already in there but if its surviing it means parameters are fine and tolerable.

Now regards to ammonia in tap water, that is serious. Even in low amount. Serious allegation there. Cause if that is true, it should be brought to the authorities attention. Hence, I can only assume...
1) test kit problem or expired
2) sewage piping leak and broke into water piping. Gulp. LOL!! Talk about NewWater. Haha
3) test tube not washed properly

I go home test ah. Hehe. Actually, secretly tested tap water parameters before and no "lah" where got ammonia. If have, in newspaper already. The only thing I know, PH in tap is high, got chlorine and chloromine. Other metals I am not sure. Oh ya fluoride. My fish teeth very shiny.

As for anti chlorine, I use prime. And something that no one should follow is I mix prime with nutrafin plus. 1st bucket prime. 2nd bucket nutrafin plus. Fish going "what the hell is wrong with you?!"

[kotaaro]

And yes i do have some corys now in my tank, it was used to counter the mozzys that suddenly breed like crazy one day.

Yes it went from fishless cycling to normal cycling now.

And yes there's ammonia in my tapwater, or rather chloramine, tested it and it gave a reading of 0.5ppm.

Chloramine = chlorine + ammonia/ammonium. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Would adding seachem Prime allows the ammonia in chloramine in my water changes to be "easier" to break down by bacteria? That's how ammonia gets break down and converts to nitrite right?

Don't know if this is worth mentioning, after my nitrite spiked and went down to zero, it has always remained zero since. Does this means that the ammonia is not being converted yet? Or just that nitrites are being converted faster to nitrates than ammonia can be converted to nitrite? quite a mouthful here but..you guys will understand i'm sure.

Thanks.

[felix_fx2]

Ammonia will always be required for the nitrogen cycle to start and go on.
If both 3 are zero. Your bb colony will die off slowly from starvation.
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

This will help.

Cory are bottom feeders. Not sure who told you they counter Mosquitos. The mouth face down.
Mosquito larvae is on water surface.

[wongce]

Ammonia is present in tap water.. From PUB Website:- Ammonia is added in the treated water containing free chlorine to form a stable chlorine residual

PUB website:- http://www.pub.gov.sg/general/pages/watertreatment.aspx

it states the water contents, so it is normal...different part of Singapore may get different water parameters...even NO3 is present in the tap water..

Kotaaro, it will be helpful if you can post a picture of your tank, it will be easier for us to see the potential problem.

[kotaaro]

sorry sorry its not cory, its platys..

[kotaaro]

Ammonia will always be required for the nitrogen cycle to start and go on.
If both 3 are zero. Your bb colony will die off slowly from starvation.
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

This will help.

Cory are bottom feeders. Not sure who told you they counter Mosquitos. The mouth face down.
Mosquito larvae is on water surface.

yes this i know. what puzzles me is that ammonia should reduce gradually and eventually reaches zero right? and from then now its the fish wastes and fish food that supplies the ammonia source.

But mine has been like "stuck" at 1-2ppm for like, 2 weeks now? Why?

[kotaaro]

Ammonia will always be required for the nitrogen cycle to start and go on.
If both 3 are zero. Your bb colony will die off slowly from starvation.
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

This will help.

Cory are bottom feeders. Not sure who told you they counter Mosquitos. The mouth face down.
Mosquito larvae is on water surface.

yes this i know. what puzzles me is that ammonia should reduce gradually and eventually reaches zero right? and from then now its the fish wastes and fish food that supplies the ammonia source.

But mine has been like "stuck" at 1-2ppm for like, 2 weeks now? Why?