Hi all, months ago, after my 2yr old son pointed excitedly at some neon tetras swimming in a tank at the LFS, on impulse, I got a 10L enclosed "all-in-one" tank, a packet of gravel, fish net, water conditioner and a dozen neon tetras, couple of guppies as well as some white cloud mountain and off I went excitedly home to set up the tank.
Made all the mistakes a newbie could possibly make... gravel just rinsed a few times and just used it even though the water is still a little murky(thinking it will settle down after a while, pour all the fishes into the tank of tap water mixed with a little of the water conditioner.. etc etc.. and yes, most of the fishes did not survive... except the white cloud mountain... it was traumatic to scoop out 1..2..3 fishes everyday coming back from work. Worrying that my son would be disappointed as the fish volume dwindled... went back bought another batch of neons... then some platys.. oto.. cory... rainbows.. the scooping of the corpses continued.. but also at the same time, I researched vigorously on the web.
I counted a total of 6 batches of fishes which I've bought over the months. It was 3 weeks ago that finally the nightmare stopped. I've now 5 dwarf rainbows, 5 white cloud mountain and 2 Ottos living in the 10L tank... I also have another small 2L tank, now this is intriguing... I bought a dozen neon tetras(small ones) with 2 Ottos, 4 cory catfishes and 5 rosy tetras... these are all meant for the 10L tank but when I brought them home, I had fungus on a platy in the 10L tank which affected most of the fishes in the tank. So I had to temporarily put the new fishes in the small tank(those plastic ones with a handle in the middle) and added a small foam filter with air bubbles type. After the fungus episode was over, the platys all did not make it... and only the rainbows, white cloud mountain and ottos survived and that's 3 weeks ago. Remarkably the new fishes have made it as well in the small little tank. It's the first time I had zero casualties of neon tetras since I started. My routine is a 50% water change weekly adding filtered water(the type with a canister filter built into the water flask)and added the Nutrafin Aqua Plus and Cycle.
As I was thinking how to introduce the new fishes to the 10L tank, the built in undergravel filter died last week and although I went back to the LFS, was told to wait a week before the replacement will come. I've been considering getting a bigger tank as from the readings I've done, the 10L tank I have and the fish quantity i have, it's like forcing them to stay in a squatter styled environment. I eventually went to C328 and got myself a 10gal tank with a Fluval C3,overhead T5 lights and some shiny black gravel. And even with the new tank and oversized filter, from the calculators on the web, it still seemed it is not an ideal size for the fishes I have. Anyway, no choice, I can't afford a bigger tank due to space constraints. The most i have to split the load between the 10L and the 10gal tanks. I mean it can't get any worse right? 10L to 10gal... I should get better water stability surely?
Now comes my dilemma, with all the fishes stable for the past 3 weeks in their respective tanks... how should i make the switch over to the new tank?
I'm assuming there should be at least some good bacteria on my foam filters in both existing tanks.. which I intend to move them temporarily into the new tank until it stabilizes with the C3 filter. Should I also transfer the existing tank water over? Such that the change in environment won't be as drastic?
The new shiny black gravel(Rainbow brand) is also giving me some concern as they are quite rough/sharp edged... I'm worried for the corys and ottos which swims about at the bottom of the tank as I read somewhere they might be injured/scratched... As much as i have been reading about the nitrogen cycle, the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates stuff... i've not really done much reading into gravel...
Questions questions questions... I better stop here... Any advise will be greatly appreciated and apologies for the long long posting which I have wrote.
Is the 10g already cycling?
If you can just take the sponge/foam give it a few good squeeze as if rinsing it. I kick start like that.
I normally introduce fish after water temp are similar. Then let them swim out on their own.
Over stock is ok only IF your filtration can handle it. But in a fish only tank, you may want to add a traditional airstone.
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Hi felix_fx2,
I just setup the 10g tank on friday night. Got the gravel washed(really painful), the tank and filter cleaned before putting them all together with water that I added Seachem's Safe and Stability. (saw a lot of good reviews of Safe/Prime, and generally Seachem's products, so thought of trying them).
For the Fluval C3 filter, I replaced the activated carbon pouch in the chemical filter compartment with Matrix. Then powered up the filter and that's basically it since then.
I have in the 10L tank, a black foam type filter where you stick an air tube in the middle of it, it's been there for the past month or so. I don't think it is cycled yet as I did tests on water and the ammonia is almost zero, the nitrite is high while the nitrate is . It's been the same for the past week even after my 50% water change.
I'd purposely gotten a bigger filter than what is required of my tank size as at the back of my mind, I knew I've more fish than I really should put in. Also I'm planning to run a air-strip as well for additional aeration of the water.
Meanwhile, I'm fretting over getting rid of the black gravel as the more I read on the web, it seemed unsuitable for my corys... I actually bought them more for their cosmetic looks.. good contrast with the colors of my fish. But now, with the safety of my corys in mind, look like I have to clear them out.
I've been pressing my LFS guy to get the replacement filter in for my 10L tank so that I can have some time to cycle the 10g tank properly before introducing my fish in. With the under gravel filter stopped running since last week, I'm worried about the toxic built up underneath the gravel which may harm my fish.
So much considerations and variables to think about. No wonder my wife is getting upset about me spending too much time on the fish than on my 2 kids and her of course. lol..
You don't have to get rid of the black gravel. Corydoras will do fine over different substrates depending on the species. In the wild they live over all sorts of substrates.
As for the "toxin buildup" under your gravel, here is my suggestion. Keep the gravel bed thin. That way you can vacuum it every week when you do your water change. In this case you made the fatal error of not cycling the tank first before putting the fishes in. I use a snail for my cycling requirements. If the snail dies the water is unsafe for fish. Very often, what kills your fish is ammonia in new tanks. Chlorine from the tap water easily dissipates with aeration but chloramine takes awhile before breaking down into chlorine and ammonia. This is the reason why our tap water needs to be aged before being used in a tank, especially with sensitive fishes.
If the fishes are stabilising in their respective tanks, do not move them unless truly necessary. Small tanks are not meant to hold so many fish given their size and because in smaller tanks, water conditions can deteriorate rapidly. I can understand your disappointment and how your kid must be feeling (I felt it too as a kid when my fishes kept dying), but don't give up just yet. Treat this as a learning experience for you and your kids. That way they can appreciate the fish better.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
My experience tell me patience is the key.
Introduce 1-2 fishes into the tank at any one time, you never know how they will affect the water parameters.
Only introduce livestock when your tank is stable and fully cycled. You can try introduce cheaper fish for testing, like feeder, then follow by your most handy fish as a commando unit when you think the tank is ready.
After that, few fishes at a time and monitor water parameters and sign for warning from the livestock.
And from then on, it is up to you to monitor and care for them to make them grow healthy and live as long as they can.
Hi Stormhawk,
I raise my concerns after reading about Corydoras injuring their mouths and the "feelers" due to the sharp edges of the gravel on some articles. That's why I'm considering changing the gravel. I mean the cost of gravel is not the concern, I'm definitely worried about my Cory's health and wellbeing.
I'm not sure if my fishes are doing fine or not in their current tanks.. I mean other than observing no abnormal behaviors like weird movements in the water or gasping for air etc... I've also tested the water and found that the ammonia is minimal(not zero, but the next notch in the API test kit), the nitrites is high(almost maximum on the test kit) and nitrates about 2 notches above zero. I don't have the exact numbers as I'm not replying from home where i recorded the readings. I think they are probably surviving based on the regular 50% water changes I'm doing and also the added bacteria(Nutrifin Cycle) helping out.
I have no casualties for the past 3 weeks which is a mini-win for me, although I'm not sure of any long term damage to the fishes. That's why I feel it's important to move them to a better(larger) environment. But as you've said also... they seemed to be surviving and I'm worried about any movement may cause their deaths... Probably I'm being paranoid also, phobia from all the deaths occurring previously.
To be honest, my 2yr old kid sort of lost interest and it's up to good old dad(me) to pick up the pieces. Lol...Thanks for your advice, still figuring what to do next.
Originally Posted by stormhawk
You don't have to get rid of the black gravel. Corydoras will do fine over different substrates depending on the species. In the wild they live over all sorts of substrates.
As for the "toxin buildup" under your gravel, here is my suggestion. Keep the gravel bed thin. That way you can vacuum it every week when you do your water change. In this case you made the fatal error of not cycling the tank first before putting the fishes in. I use a snail for my cycling requirements. If the snail dies the water is unsafe for fish. Very often, what kills your fish is ammonia in new tanks. Chlorine from the tap water easily dissipates with aeration but chloramine takes awhile before breaking down into chlorine and ammonia. This is the reason why our tap water needs to be aged before being used in a tank, especially with sensitive fishes.
If the fishes are stabilising in their respective tanks, do not move them unless truly necessary. Small tanks are not meant to hold so many fish given their size and because in smaller tanks, water conditions can deteriorate rapidly. I can understand your disappointment and how your kid must be feeling (I felt it too as a kid when my fishes kept dying), but don't give up just yet. Treat this as a learning experience for you and your kids. That way they can appreciate the fish better.
Hi bravobb,
My issue really is that my existing environments are not exactly ideal for the fishes although they have survived relatively unharmed for the past 3 weeks.
I'm planning to introduce the fishes to the new tank in batches(one type at a time, eg. corys first, otto next..etc). Although I'm thinking I'll probably want to do a proper cycling of the tank first before my move. Again, a lot depends on how they are doing in the existing tanks.
Thanks for your advices.
If you are seeing a nitrite spike, that is normal as ammonia breaks down into nitrite before turning into nitrate. This is the midway stage of the cycling process. However, nitrite is deadly for fish. I'd cross my fingers and hope for the best. It's always good to have a spare holding tank, fully cycled, just in case.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
I certainly hope it's midway in the cycling process too..this status has been the same for 2 weeks...
Fingers crossed too... Big time...
I'd just replaced the spoilt under gravel pump on my 10L tank and almost died of a heart attack when I powered it up.. the filter was spewing up tons of debris into the water and turned it all cloudy..
Fortunately it sort of subsided and settled down after 15 mins.. I've just done a 50% water change yesterday so I was hesitant to change it again.. But at the same time worried about whether any dangerous/toxic stuff are floating around now in the water...
I added more of the Nutrafin Cycle just in case. Fingers crossed again...
bro it o.k ... give it some time to settle down... and the water will back to normal clear again...
Its a fishy world out there... huat ar...
Everything seems normal so far, but I was too tired after work last night to test the water condition, although the Ammonia indicator tag shows it's in the safe region. Will probably do so tonight.
Personally, I always waited until I did a water change and then re-arranged all the ornaments and plants this way everyone needs to re-establish territories and there are less fights between the new guys and the old ones.
Fish-keeping is such a fascinating but challenging hobby, and one in which there's so much to learn and master.
LIFE IS UNBEARABLE WITHOUT A FISH TANK!!!
Lost 2 neon tetras on friday. The rest seemed normal so far, I'm sticking to the water change routine and see how it goes.
Just setup the 10gallon tank with the plants and stuff. Trying fishless cycling but was quite conscious about throwing fish food all over the tank. So I used one of those mesh for putting tea leaves and put the fish food into it and then submerge the packet into the water and attached it with a string to the side of the tank. That way, should keep the water cleaner I think. haha.. and now we wait.
hi bro,do feed back and let us know about the process.. thanks..
Its a fishy world out there... huat ar...
Lost another neon tetra and one of the smaller corys in my 10 L tank...
I hope it's not going to be the start of mass death again.. ammonia level is present but low, not even triggering colour change on the seachem stick on in the tank. There doesn't seemed to be any obvious distress with the others.. Colors looked bright and shiny. The past cases can see that the all my tetras lost their colors and made their way up to the surface and also did weird movements in time water. This time round, can't find any obvious strange signs. No obvious damage, redness, bulges or anything on the bodies as well.
If anymore death starts occurring, wonder what should I do? Fingers crossed...
LOL at dad picking up the pieces. Wait are you sure it was the kids or you use the kids to tell your wife its for the kids. Haha.
Anyway, Nitrite bad bad bad. But you're half way there from the sound of it. There's nothing much you can do about the fish dying. Water not cycled properly yet. So crossing fingers the water parameters stablises soon.
Ammonia spikes in the beginning
Then it goes down. Nitrite spikes (Nitrite very bad) Nitrate increases.
Then ammonia may go 0 or at 0.5ppm. Nitrite will go 0. Nitrate at 5-20ppm. Plants will absorb the nitrate. The first indicator that something is going to go wrong is ammonia.
I had mine at 0;0;10 - When I got there, went to Seaview and got my fish. Then ammonia went up for the first day then went back to 0 the next day. Hehe.
You're good to go! Wait how long has the tank been cycling now?
VSGenesis
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Yo bro VSGenesis, i just had time to test my water in both tanks. Guess what? Ammonia and Nitrite are ZERO on the 10L tank! First time ever! But the Nitrate level is off the charts.. strange as i did 50% WC yesterday only. But still happy lar, i suppose just have to do another WC to reduce the Nitrate.
As for the small tank where my tetras and cory deaths occurred, Nitrite is very high, between 2-5ppm purple colour on the APItest kit. The Ammonia is almost zero, while Nitrate is around 5ppm. This has been the case for the past few weeks as well... so it could be a case where they died from prolong nitrite poisoning? I'm going to do a 50% WC later as well, but instead of the Nutrafin Aqua Plus, i'll use the Seachem Safe treated water which i've prepared a few days ago in a pail. It's said that it can neutralize the nitrite i think.. maybe worth a try. Nothing to lose anyway.
Still happy to see the light blue colour of the Nitrite test in the 10L tank.. at least my rainbows, whiteclouds and ottos should be safe for now as the 10G tank is cycling. Gosh..it took quite a few weeks to reach this stage finally..
Lost another tetra today.. Hiaz...
Tested the water again and nitrite is off the chart again in the small tank even after I did 50% WC yesterday... I suspect the nitrite is definitely more than 5 ppm that's why even after wc, still showing deep purple on API test kit.
My 10L tank after wc yesterday showed zero ammonia and nitrite again and the nitrate dropped to about 80 ppm..
I'm considering shifting the tetras to the 10 L tank else there might not be any left by next week..
suggestions/advice? Thanks...
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