Something which I do not understand

[elwaynetan]

Hello...

Back about 1 month ago, my girl and I went to purchase a nano tank and some other accesories.

a month back....
396164_10150974808908325_810193899_n.jpg

No fan, no test kits for water condition, a fairly decent thermometer sticked to the side of the tank showing 30 degrees constant.

Was keeping Fire Reds and maybe 2 yellow golden backs in it. They were quite active back then the first day... and night.

Following day, 1 Fire Red died. And so, it goes on repeatedly for the next few days.

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1 week later, went to Green Chapter to ask about more. Introduced more about shrimps and plants to us. We decided to get some frogbits to maintain the water condition. We also went to SeaView to get nitrate test kit.

a month later.
580742_10150989062258325_756827726_n.jpg

Ok, nitrate level was VERY good. Nearly 0 based on the color chart. But, mishaps still continuing... 1 after another. Till everybody died in it.

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Not giving up... We decided to try for another batch. And get some more accesories.

Recently...
546653_10151000996898325_1795021963_n.jpg

Tiger shrimps and Fire Reds. We removed the driftwood and put in a stone from QianHu and some of her seashells collected years back maybe 10 years.

Well, same as the first scenario, all good first few days. Then 1 Tiger Shrimp died. But all was well again till we got another Driftwood of Java Fern which we put in yesterday after a day of soaking. This morning, 2 Fire Reds died.

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Apologies if the story is a bit too long. But then again, I couldn't understand why are they dying of slowly. I am patient with them and that's what I tell my girl too.... you just have to be patient with them. I just have a burning question in my head;

From the API 5-in-1 test kit,

pH: 6
gH: Finally 0
kH: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Temp: Thermometer showing yellow colour at 28 degrees celsius.
Fan: On 24/7

Why are they still dying???

Anybody to share??

[alvinchan80]

How long did you cycle your tank before introducing livestocks?

[Loudness]

gh 0?! fire red should keep around 4 to 6 gh.

[elwaynetan]

First try, I did not cycle. I poured in a bit of the bacteria solution. A while after I had conditioned them to the temp and water, I put them in and 'cycle' at the same time as every week or so, I will pour in the same amount of bacteria solution .

For the second try now, I cycled for about a week before I introduced the Tigers and Fire Reds.

[reiner09]

that tank looks really small..must be quite difficult to maintain the parameters considering a fan running 24/7 (high evaporation rate) and like what bro alvin mentioned how long did you cycle your tank..? and gh=0 means you use pure distilled water?

[alvinchan80]

First try, I did not cycle. I poured in a bit of the bacteria solution. A while after I had conditioned them to the temp and water, I put them in and 'cycle' at the same time as every week or so, I will pour in the same amount of bacteria solution .

For the second try now, I cycled for about a week before I introduced the Tigers and Fire Reds.

We cycle for about 4-6 weeks normally for shrimps... Hahahaha...

Even my fastest cycle with lots of liquid bacteria takes me 2+ weeks....

[gyjd]

If I'm not wrong, kH should be 2-3 so it can buffer the ph? Then again, it's very difficult to maintain water parameters in such a small tank...

[elwaynetan]

But actually how do you know if the tank is established? From all my sources from the internet, they do not really state the results of an established tank

I was thinking... if you guys heard about API 5-in-1 before, I believed the kit only show a very general result on the different elements in the water,mainly nitrate, nitrite, pH, kH and gH.

Would it be better to get more focused test kits to ACCURATELY get the results on the conditions of the water?

[reiner09]

But actually how do you know if the tank is established? From all my sources from the internet, they do not really state the results of an established tank

I was thinking... if you guys heard about API 5-in-1 before, I believed the kit only show a very general result on the different elements in the water,mainly nitrate, nitrite, pH, kH and gH.

Would it be better to get more focused test kits to ACCURATELY get the results on the conditions of the water?

IMO those 5 in 1 test kits are not really reliable, it is best to get individual parameter test kits ..especially if you want to keep sensitive shrimps such as bkk..
To check if your cycling is complete , ammonia and nitrite level should be 0ppm and with a small amount of nitrate(0-20ppm) within the water column...talking about shrimps, gh levels has to be monitored carefully also..

[elwaynetan]

Actually how do you maintain gH in the water?

Right now, the tank is on those water similar to diamond water (different brand). The filter is only charcoal. No other medium in it...

[reiner09]

Actually how do you maintain gH in the water?

Right now, the tank is on those water similar to diamond water (different brand). The filter is only charcoal. No other medium in it...

gh actually comprises of calcium and magnesium mainly ( and probably some other minority cations with a +2 charge ).. if gh is too high you can lower it using distilled water , if it is too low you can raise it using additives such as mosura mineral plus.. a few important test kit (a must get ) if you want to keep sensitive shrimps are GH, ammonia , ph and a tds meter if possible...

[wongce]

Questions:
1)did u add anti-chlorine into tank?if no, you should add them and age the water as chlorine is toxic to fish and shrimps.
2)What substrate are you using?
3)Your parameters are almost all zeros? or you do not have the neccessary test kits?

Cycling is to check whether ammonia level is drop to 0 and increase of nitrite and nitrate as the beneficial bacteria grows in your tank.

Don't bother buying the 5 in1 test kits, single types are more accurate but of course more pricey. IMHO,you need ammonia,nitrate,PH,GH test kits. However after the tank is establish,you will use less ammonia test kit unless for emergency testing due o sudden mass death.

If you need info,uncle google and aq's sticky threads are good sources of info...you can look through my blog below my signature for info too...lol

[avex30]

Fire red is hardy but still best kept at room temp

Also please kindly check tiger to survive and breed parameter is totally different from fire red. However fire red might be able to survive in tiger parameter.

Tiger breed and do well below are my own parameter althought I know expert will say no need.

Ph 6.8-7
Gh 5-6
Tds 120
Temp 23 yes I set my tank temp.

Fire red might survive but might face molting issue due to gh at 6

[xconnect.]

Maybe your filter is not efficient enough to convert ammonia to nitrates therefore you can have zero nitrates but alot ammonia which is a few times more toxic than nitrate. The rest the bros above explain until Cheng teng clear.

[Navanod]

Ammonia is about 1000 times more toxic than nitrate. Nitrite is about 10 times more toxic than nitrate.
Rule of thumb is, any ammonia in the tank is going to be toxic, even if it is barely detectable. It the most common causes of livestock deaths in new tanks

[elwaynetan]

Hey! You just struck me with your point! Ok... It makes sense. Thanks man...

[elwaynetan]

Maybe your filter is not efficient enough to convert ammonia to nitrates therefore you can have zero nitrates but alot ammonia which is a few times more toxic than nitrate. The rest the bros above explain until Cheng teng clear.

Hey! You just struck me with your point! Ok! It makes sense! Thanks man!

[elwaynetan]

Fire red is hardy but still best kept at room temp

Also please kindly check tiger to survive and breed parameter is totally different from fire red. However fire red might be able to survive in tiger parameter.

Tiger breed and do well below are my own parameter althought I know expert will say no need.

Ph 6.8-7
Gh 5-6
Tds 120
Temp 23 yes I set my tank temp.

Fire red might survive but might face molting issue due to gh at 6

I totally agree with you. Then again, it depends individually.. Haha. They are going on well with each other! And one of the sources online also states that Tigers can live together with Reds. So, I just decided to follow that.

[elwaynetan]

Questions:
1)did u add anti-chlorine into tank?if no, you should add them and age the water as chlorine is toxic to fish and shrimps.
2)What substrate are you using?
3)Your parameters are almost all zeros? or you do not have the neccessary test kits?

Cycling is to check whether ammonia level is drop to 0 and increase of nitrite and nitrate as the beneficial bacteria grows in your tank.

Don't bother buying the 5 in1 test kits, single types are more accurate but of course more pricey. IMHO,you need ammonia,nitrate,PH,GH test kits. However after the tank is establish,you will use less ammonia test kit unless for emergency testing due o sudden mass death.

If you need info,uncle google and aq's sticky threads are good sources of info...you can look through my blog below my signature for info too...lol

Oh yes! It is a basic requirement for most aquarium species which I follow religiously when I was doing my aquarium last time. I was using PetFran initially for the shrimp tank. Now I'm using SeaChem.

I'm using H.E.L.P Advanced Soil (shrimps) and there is some humic on top of the substrate. Haha...

Well, the API 5-in-1 showed all zero. Well yes. I only have NO2 test kit and the API 5-in-1.

Ok! Thanks for the info! I will go take a look!

[alvinchan80]

I totally agree with you. Then again, it depends individually.. Haha. They are going on well with each other! And one of the sources online also states that Tigers can live together with Reds. So, I just decided to follow that.

Please don't listen too all online sources blindly.. There has been lots of requirements stated in the Internet but a lot fail on those requirements or parameter stated..

Learn more about set ups, filtrations, livestock requirements from breeder, livestock kept parameter from breeder, etc... Lots of people are keeping their shrimps in a condition which is keeping them alive but not breeding..

Read more, learn more..