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Local forum I guess should be AQ,AF and Fish TimeOriginally Posted by zyblack
But AQ is more popular in shrimp community....
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Anywhere else that still allows buy/sell of shrimps beyond AQ and AroFanatics? Would love the information so I will appreciate if anyone pm me about it.
Yours Truly, Avan
I went into the woods because I wanted to live deliberately. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life... to put to rout all that was not life; and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
~ Henry David Thoreau
Local forum I guess should be AQ,AF and Fish Time
But AQ is more popular in shrimp community....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the info! Looking to sell shrimps (yes I am selling shrimps for profits...evil me..) and can't do it in AQ and AF anymore so it is time for me to head to Fish Time and start a new account there. 20 post counts and 10 rep points required to sell stuff again......another round of earning brownie points.
Yours Truly, Avan
I went into the woods because I wanted to live deliberately. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life... to put to rout all that was not life; and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
~ Henry David Thoreau
Update!
I just found out that I can post in the buy/sell of Fish Talk with even my first post! It is a very new forum so kinda quiet there but I suggest those urgent seller or buyers can head there for shrimp-related sales while AQ admin and moderators review the system here.
Hmm maybe I should give a "special AQ" discount for AQ members...
Yours Truly, Avan
I went into the woods because I wanted to live deliberately. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life... to put to rout all that was not life; and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
~ Henry David Thoreau
Sorry, I apologise in advance but its starting to irk me. It's not the end of the world if AQ really ban shrimp selling. Heck, it will not kill if the whole section is close down. Ask ourselves, in what spirit was Buy/Sell section created for?
I find it "funny" and unbelievable why some of us would go asking, "what should I do now?" Is it really that bad till we become lost, out lifes become empty with the platform gone? Why do we need to "poke" or annoy others further by insinuating? It does not help at all.
What we should do collectively is to shoot out positive ideas and constructive suggestions to AQ to find a solution to make it better/beneficial for everyone and not for one party. And be patient.
I've given my suggestions. Regardless , whether its a positive or a pathetic idea, AQ decides. AQ don't owe me anything; I do not owe AQ anything except for my appreciation for creating AQ for us. Can we come back to giving out constructive suggestions; if not leave this space open.
VSGenesis
"The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing we can ever truly control whether we are good or evil." - Oma Desala (Stargate - SG1)
http://hisstoryimmortalised.blogspot.sg/
Appreciate what AQ forum had provided us. Nobody said its the end of the world. There are so many ways to get rid of your excess bioload.
anything FOC will not have any dispute i suppose? heehee
Zack
Hi Zack, nah not everyone. But apparently, there are minority that makes it as if it is. As if AQ owns them. Most of the folks are alright and really nice keepers.
All this talk about shrimp, makes me want to go prawning again. Hehe. Miss catching prawns.
VSGenesis
"The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing we can ever truly control whether we are good or evil." - Oma Desala (Stargate - SG1)
http://hisstoryimmortalised.blogspot.sg/
Power reply...Thanks for the info! Looking to sell shrimps (yes I am selling shrimps for profits...evil me..) and can't do it in AQ and AF anymore so it is time for me to head to Fish Time and start a new account there. 20 post counts and 10 rep points required to sell stuff again......another round of earning brownie points.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kindly register as a commercial seller if so that is the case. Our Mod Simon will have to approve of it first. no point asking everyone here to go other forums to sell their excessive stuff and it plainly shows what manners you have. You come to this forum and people welcome you with open arms. Now you bitch about not being able to sell for profits due to some temporary ban on sales then you have the cheek to try to drag members to other forums?? I'm not sorry to say that you DO NOT HAVE MY RESPECT.Thanks for the info! Looking to sell shrimps (yes I am selling shrimps for profits...evil me..) and can't do it in AQ and AF anymore so it is time for me to head to Fish Time and start a new account there. 20 post counts and 10 rep points required to sell stuff again......another round of earning brownie points.
Too much of a fish SIAO to quit fish keeping/fishing..
Take a good look at the buy/sell forum. See how many people are selling guppies, plants and various other stuff. Many are using the reason to reduce bioload or doing rescapes or whatever the reason. Are these people doing so without any form of any monetary returns? I remember a period of time when people are growing rares mosses and plants for sale and they are posting it every single week. I don't see people having problems with that and in fact most of them appreciate the opportunity being able to get those rare mosses.kindly register as a commercial seller if so that is the case. Our Mod Simon will have to approve of it first. no point asking everyone here to go other forums to sell their excessive stuff and it plainly shows what manners you have. You come to this forum and people welcome you with open arms. Now you bitch about not being able to sell for profits due to some temporary ban on sales then you have the cheek to try to drag members to other forums?? I'm not sorry to say that you DO NOT HAVE MY RESPECT.
Now take a good look at what is happening here. Just because I am selling my shrimps does that make me a evil person? If I sell plants and guppies, then I am perfectly fine? I don't see the people buying the shrimps from me in the past complaining about their purchase nor did I twist their arms to do so. I am selling them my shrimps at a lower price than that of the LFS so am I doing them a favour or hurting them? By the way, LFS are selling shrimps at a higher price so are they even more evil than I am?
Also since AQ does not allow shrimp sales, what is so wrong about me telling the others where to head to for shrimp-related sales? AQ does not want shrimp sales here so whether others head to other forums or not, should not matter to AQ or to any of the members here. Do you think they will stop visiting AQ once they visit other forums? If that is the case, it is simply because of their personal choice and not because I goad them to. AQ deem the shrimp community as contentious and quarrelsome so aren't I helping AQ solve the problem by asking the shrimps-lovers to move their chatter and flaming to the other forums? Since the shrimp section is the only section that is giving AQ admins and mods headaches, isn't this one method of solving the problem?
By the way, I have no idea who you are so I am not sure if I want or need your respect since it might just be the other way around. You might want to watch your words though since I see no reason to get personal here.
Yours Truly, Avan
I went into the woods because I wanted to live deliberately. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life... to put to rout all that was not life; and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
~ Henry David Thoreau
Number 1: Does banning of sales include plants/moss/other livestocks other than shrimps? If no, why mention them?
Number 2: Did I mention anything about an "evil" person. I'm merely suggesting that you sign up with Simon our dear Mod for commercial sales since you let the whole know know that you are selling them for profit.
Number 3: Did I mention anything about people complaining about your shrimps?I'm saying that YOU as a person, BITCH about not being able to sell shrimps here while others are giving feedbacks.
Number 4: If you had read earlier about this thread. You would know that "Shrimperax", another guy, was pulling other shrimp sellers into his so called temporary blog to sell shrimps and that was NOT ALLOWED by Vinz. Opening asking about other forums is frown upon if you do not know that. Have you seen other forums asking about other forums like giving the full name of the forum, lets just say most people who do that gets ban straight no matter how long are in the forum.
Number 5: Do you see them opening flaming each other about their shrimps? What i noticed is that almost all gives constructive comments.
Number 6: This is not personal. Its just that the way you are posting things is deem as offensive to lots of people.
Last edited by icefire; 7th Sep 2012 at 21:45. Reason: adding proper stuff.
Too much of a fish SIAO to quit fish keeping/fishing..
zyblack, icefire.... I feel both of you need to take one step back and allow things to just cool off.
In certain sense, I agree in parts with what both of you have brought up, and at the same time, I have to disagree with some of the assumption you both are pointing at one another.
For zyblack, I understand your comment, and I share the same frustration.. that why I started the thread... to move on..... but there is no need to challenge AQ or to test the patience of the mods. As much as I would like to see the mods giving some space for buy/sell or indepth explanation into how this was being develope into such, it is not for us to challenge the mods or to test their limits.
For icefire, maybe the words and expression used by zyblack are wrong..... but can't we see that it is was a development due to frustration, not really intented to be offensive? By responding to zyblack's post and pointing out some of his wrong choice of words and expression isn't gonna help him. Sometime, we assume we know what others are writing, but really... do we?? Just as you wrote that you did not single zyblack as 'evil', but he assume it..... in the same way, you wrote "offensive to lots of people" but really....... are there "lots of people"??
Seriously, I start the thread not to challenge anyone, but only with desire to move on.. to find an answer to my problem.
So guys, lets cool off... replying to one another unintentional comments doesn't help each others. Cheers!
No.1 and 2 - You asked me to register to be a commercial seller for what reason? Simply because I say I sell stuff for a profit? You mentioned "you let the whole know know that you are selling them for profit"Number 1: Does banning of sales include plants/moss/other livestocks other than shrimps? If no, why mention them?: smug :
Number 2: Did I mention anything about an "evil" person. I'm merely suggesting that you sign up with Simon our dear Mod for commercial sales since you let the whole know know that you are selling them for profit.
Number 3: Did I mention anything about people complaining about your shrimps?
Number 4: If you had read earlier about this thread. You would know that "Shrimperax", another guy, was pulling other shrimp sellers into his so called temporary blog to sell shrimps and that was NOT ALLOWED by Vinz. Opening asking about other forums is frown upon if you do not know that. Have you seen other forums asking about other forums like giving the full name of the forum, lets just say most people who do that gets ban straight no matter how long are in the forum.
Number 5: Do you see them opening flaming each other about their shrimps? What i noticed is that almost all gives constructive comments.
Number 6: This is not personal. Its just that the way you are posting things is deem as offensive to lots of people.
Ahem...Is selling stuff for profit bad? What I am reading in this thread is a lot of people deem selling for a profit as bad and one should only trade or give away stuff here. I point this out siimply I don't see the logic behind it. I mentioned other livestocks and plants for the same reason, they are selling stuff for a profit. If I can breed guppies with a certain genetic trait or quality and people wants to buy them from me, is it wrong? Selling for a profit does not make me a commercial seller since I do not own a business selling shrimps.
No.3 - You deem my posts and comments as "bitching" while I consider them feedback and my view of the situation. I worded my sentences very carefully with the intention to uncover misconceptions and underlying suppositions. Such as your visible dislike for the words "selling for a profit". I want to make you (and others) see that those words are not necessarily evil or bad. The word "profit" has both good and bad connotations but it appears that several opinions expressed here seem to deem "selling for profit" is bad.
No.4 - I read what Shrimprax wrote and the arguments back and forth. I will put it simply. Those who keep shrimps or looking to keep shrimps will want to acquire or "offload" (a better word?) shrimps for their interest and since AQ decided to ban all transactions related to shrimps, is it very wrong for others to want to know where else to go to get their kicks and spend their money? If it is bad manners to openly suggest other venues to go to, do we all then have to secretly PM each other and "talk underground" like bandits afraid of being caught?
No.5 - Not sure what you are talking about so going to add my own point. I and others who value the freedom to buy/sell shrimps are upset about the current ban. I understand that moderators are frustrated with dealing with the flaming/trolling as well as the transaction disputes within the shrimp community. But the decision to ban the transactions upsets the people who have never participated in the flaming or disputes and have no parts to play except that they are part of the shrimp-lovers group. If I am part of the shrimp community then I am both "quarrelsome and contentious" and if I sell shrimps for a profit, I am a "commercial seller" who should be ashamed of himself. And now that I am pointing others to another forum, I am deemed to have bad manners. Anyone can see what I am getting at?
No.6 - "I'm saying that YOU as a person, BITCH about not being able to sell shrimps" Yeah...not personal...
Last edited by zyblack; 8th Sep 2012 at 11:38.
Yours Truly, Avan
I went into the woods because I wanted to live deliberately. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life... to put to rout all that was not life; and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
~ Henry David Thoreau
No worries I understand perfectly well where you are coming from since we are in the same "boat".
The reasons I am wording my posts that way is to get the moderators and admins to see the impact they have on the community with their decision. Of course I do not understand the level of frustration or difficulty they have had dealing with the issues so far and I will not pretend to know. But I just want to let them know how I feel about the situation, from my point of view. Hope they will consider it in their decisions moving forward.
Yours Truly, Avan
I went into the woods because I wanted to live deliberately. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life... to put to rout all that was not life; and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived.
~ Henry David Thoreau
Finally! somebody actually sees things eye to eye with me..! you expressed exactly what I meant all along.
I am not afraid to announce I am that shrimperax , you guys are talking about. I have been keeping quiet partly because of the relentless ban on my accounts and that I have been busy - unlike what I have been labelled , as somebody with 'no life' . BUT that would not stop me. I have my own point of view, others have theirs' but when they can't accept my way of doing things ,they resort to personal attacks. Few of such examples are displayed earlier in this thread and of course the actions displayed by some 'reasonable' mods/admin, who I shall not name .
By the way if you read the thread title, it is asking where else..? SO, zyblack is not wrong in answering that question. One suggestion, get somebody to change that title else only zyblack is answering to the topic while the others are actually commenting in the wrong thread?
Just a note to the mods/admin though, you can keep banning me but that would not stop me from making a new account just to make ONE comment.
I seriously wonder if the ban on my accounts is justified through proper reasons or just an act derived from these chinese characters- 脑休成怒, if you understand?
Just a thought....
Isn't this the best time to start a new community?
Just like when our neighbour wanted to kick us out, we became independent and did well on our own.
Last edited by kenny; 8th Sep 2012 at 13:09. Reason: Spelling
Seriously guys, please, can we just stop arguing about this and agree to disagree? Those who wish to find another avenue to dispose of their shrimp and/or earn a quick buck, sure, please find another avenue. For those who wish to give others an avenue to do so, please go ahead and provide an avenue, no one's saying that you're the bad guy here.
But please, if people are nice enough to provide us with an avenue, resources and help by setting up a forum, surely it's not too much to ask to show them the due respect and following the rules that are set here. People are already providing us a forum gratis, and with that comes a lot of volunteer work by people. I understand and also dislike it whenever people "pull rank" on me, but questioning other people's rules and challenging them for no good reason other than you feel it should be the way is not the accepted social convention. I won't bother with right or wrong. Discussing about it is definitely fine, but not quarreling over it and definitely not trying to get around the rules. If you don't follow the rules that are set when you enter an organization, expect persecution. And if you feel so strongly about it, set up your own organization where you can have those rules that you wish for. But please stop trolling around here. Don't talk about freedom and other big notions like that, again, no one forced you to register here and follow the rules here. There's a difference between giving constructive feedback and simply voicing out displeasure. I have no issue with the latter, in fact I do voice out my displeasure, just do not mask it as the former.
This post really isn't meant to offend, and please do not misconstrue it as such. I just hope to point out the possibilities in moving on and I do hope that we all do so. Ultimately, we are a community and have been getting along with each other more or less, within or beyond the shrimp community. 缘缘相报何时了, can we just move on already and stop pointing fingers at who first did what?
Resistance is futile, you will be administrated!
We usually prefer not to wash dirty laundry in public, but in cases where the person wants to keep being difficult...
Just to clear the air. Shrimperax was not banned for posting a link to his temporary site.
He is banned for trying to circumvent our decisions and rules, and for being defiant and disrespectful.
Some examples of his signatures:
Making his link test smaller than the other text... why?
After I asked him why, he made it bigger than the other text... why?Where else? It's here temporarily i hope. <link removed>
Instead of punitive actions, I asked him to remove his link. He change it to this:Where else? It's here temporarily i hope. <link removed>
Again, instead of punitive actions, I PM'd him and issued a warning. He changed it to this:For+Shrimp+sales + google. If you need.
Up to this point, I had been trying to explain the situation and reason with him. However, this was the straw that broke the camel's back and I decided that there is no point for me to reason any more with someone who insists ondefying our decisions and rules and banned his account.Oh..an unreasonable and tyrannical ruler. He who only knows how to impose his ideas on others..so much for democracy.
What a show!
He decided to return as AL84 with this post:
And this signature:
Of course, the account gets banned. Banned means banned, new account does not make a difference. Besides being defiant, he is also creating multiple accounts.Resistance is never futile , it is futile only when the resistance didn't try hard enough.
He returned again as eddy84 with this signature:
Banned of course.A leader that doesn't behaves like one..
There are many views posted in this thread. Some supporting our decision, some opposing it and some middle ground. We have not taken offence with any. So be clear that Shrimperax is not banned for his views. Simply for his defiance and disrespect.
AQ is a private space, opened for public access. Everyone is welcomed to join and participate as long as they behave themselves, respect other members, respect the house rules (not just the word of it, but the spirit of it) and respect the hosts. AQ was created for the community. Not for our personal glory nor benefit. We have house rules and make decisions to keep AQ peaceful, conducive and relevant. Members who repeatedly defy us and break the rules, just have to go. Nothing personal, no offence meant.
We are certainly NOT a democracy. There are no leaders in AQ, just hosts. Do you go to a friend's house and expect democracy? If the house owner expels you, do you keep trying to come back in (without making peace first)? Do you not think it is rude to go a private gathering and publicly ask the guests to go to another gathering (without asking the host for permission first)?
Over the years, we certainly have had troublesome discussion and sales threads. However, we have never had problematic threads as often as with shrimp threads.
Other than the public quarrels, we also get PMs making accusations and complaints. While we do not get involved in private disagreements, we do sometimes investigate if accusations of cheating or breaking of AQ rules are true. It simply came to a point where enough was enough and decided to put a stop to it.
One of AQ's goals is to create a peaceful and conducive environment to share the hobby knowledge, with threads that are more content than idle chatter. I believe many of our members join and keep coming back because of that.
All AQ staff are volunteers. We have personal lives, work, studies, family, etc. The staff do not enjoy any material benefits from working on AQ, except an appreciation meal once or twice a year, sometimes less. We cannot work on AQ full time and there is a point where we have to draw the line for the sake of keeping AQ peaceful, conducive and relevant within the man-hours and resources available. While we would like to be nice, service-oriented, send PM reminders, etc, most of the time we just don't have the the luxury of time to do so. It is a lot of work to keep AQ as clean as it is. If you have visited other more chaotic forums, you can see the difference and this due to our relatively large and active team of moderators.
Thank you for all your suggestions and views. Do keep them coming if you have any more. We are taking a long time restructuring the marketplace mechanics because we need a system that requires relatively less manual intervention by AQ staff.
And last of all, please respect each other and do not turn this thread into a war. Everybody is entitled to their views and are free to express them respectfully. Avoid personal accusations and name-calling, etc.
So zyblack and icefire, please cool off before you reply.
Thank you.
Last edited by vinz; 8th Sep 2012 at 17:40.
Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:A woman, without her man, is nothing.
A woman: without her, man is nothing.
hai, just like the same thing happening when Af closed/reduced their buy/sell thread.
Zack
AF also got so happening? thought all the old bird there very happy when AF decided to allow buy/sell only for those who contributed to the forum or sign up as AFC member?
Anyway maybe mods should give us a time whereby you may review the need to lift or continuing the ban of shrimp sales? so at least we know when there could be a change..
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