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Thread: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

  1. #41
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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

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    Oh I forgot.
    1) have a category titled shrimp in Buy/Sell.
    2) all sellers must provide updated/current pictures of the stock
    3) buyers better go do their research; bring a friend who is experienced
    4) AQ will not be held responsible nor will it be investigated for any dispute. Go to case, find an unbias mediator, police or find mommy.
    5) Buyers are encouraged to give feedback to build up credibility of seller
    6) Rude post will be removed
    7) Sellers with bad feedback score to ban from posting in Buy/Sell


    Buy/Sell...what's so complicated?
    Sellers, be honest or you lose credibility; people won't buy from you in future. Buyers, do research and open eyes big big.


    But how do you avoid mass seller? A person who buys in large quantity and then try to sell it off for a quick profit?


    Aiyah, I still think, if we guys are looking for breeders to sell their stock, why don't we make friends in real life. Isn't it better that way? Make friends, learn from each other, sell/trade with each other? I find it enjoyable going out for coffee and talking about stuffs. I don't know about other LFS but I think one or two lfs are not bad right? But if you trust more with breeder than go make friends with breeder. "Lim kopi ah mai?"

    If I am naive, forgive me. It is just an opinion. Cheers people!
    VSGenesis
    "The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing we can ever truly control whether we are good or evil." - Oma Desala (Stargate - SG1)
    http://hisstoryimmortalised.blogspot.sg/

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Haha was going to post something similar to VSGenesis, but I thought to myself, why open myself to arrows? I fully concur with what you say bro, when I first started out in shrimping the only thing I learnt in the first few weeks is that discussion in the Invertebrates Section is unique. It appeared that those who got more friends concurring with them and has the "loudest voice" get to be "correct", not to mention the witch-hunts we had going for a while. Frankly, it's quite understandable that the mods are banning it at least temporarily, since they have all these extra things to deal with when they don't even get paid. And for those forumers who think of moving away due to the unavailability of shrimp, well to put it bluntly, forums like these do not need people who exist only to sell/purchase livestock.

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Haha. I post knowing I would be condemn by certain section of our community but heck.

    And for those forumers who think of moving away due to the unavailability of shrimp, well to put it bluntly, forums like these do not need people who exist only to sell/purchase livestock. <- Exactly Draka.

    Another suggestion to deter "flippers"
    Credible Breeder register with AQ. (Create an application template or sorts- data remain confidential and only owner of AQ allowed to view should the content be sensitive) Approve or not, notification will be send to recepient. Not approve; AQ is not obligated to say why. Not approve suck thumb, go ebay.
    Approved breeder will be allowed to post.
    Application to last for 12 months and will need to reapply.
    AQ can set a cap yearly of how many breeder is registered or not at all.
    Breeder caught for selling for others; refer to terms of condition.
    How to start and know who these breeders are, they can apply first. Then a Thread open for people to vote once for these breeders. The number of votes will determine whether that breeder has some credibility. Members who can vote are those who meets certain criteria. Or the list of applicants can basically be decided by the collective vote of the moderators.

    Those whos application are not approve; any post of whining why application was not approved to be deleted and will not be considered in the next year application.

    Am I putting more crap into an already crappy pot? Hehe. Just a suggestion. Deter "flippers", possibly? But not 100% full proof but its something. Think the problem not only lies in the quarrel but folks who abuse the buy/sell section. There's no need to be unhappy about the ban. No one is forcing nor are we paying. There's always ebay and some other website where they facilitate buy/sell. Heck go put on GMarket "lah" Hehe.

    PS: I don't get paid for posting this either.
    VSGenesis
    "The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing we can ever truly control whether we are good or evil." - Oma Desala (Stargate - SG1)
    http://hisstoryimmortalised.blogspot.sg/

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    well said Draka. Supported
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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    VSgenesis, draka... constructive comments!! ... LIKE + 1

    IMHO, we should respect the decision of AQ's owner...no point argueing about it as decision is made. Aq is not a profitable organization,thus there is no resources to monitor all the suspicious sales, complains, flippers etc. Thus, the easiest way out is ban it.

    Lets keep AQ a knowledge sharing platform, by hobbyist..for hobbyist...

    Sellers just have to find other selling platforms as per mentioned earlier...


    Check out my Blog on planted tank, good for newbies ( i am lazy to retype all the info i know, so please click and read below link... i hope you don't fall asleep while reading)
    Link to my Blog

    I am not PERFECT but I am LIMITED EDITION !!! BIG Tank comes with BIG Responsibility...as they makan a lot of $$....lol

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Hi. I am new here, however knowing of this situation i have decided to set up a temporary sales channel for the innocent hobbyist that are being embroiled in this issue. I know some of you might disagree with my methods but i believe in a hobby ,any kind of restrictions still do impede the spread of this hobby. By having a blanket ban is definitely not the best way to solve the problem.Although it will help to prevent flippers but it also makes things difficult for the other rules abiding hobbyist- sellers/ buyers.

    The blog i set up as a temporary sales channel is **** ,fellow hobbyist can feel free to use it to pitch your sales,but do abide by the rules i set there.

    I respect AQ's owner decision on this and i will not argue about it but rather i will do something that will benefit other hobbyist that are innocently embroiled into this.
    Last edited by Simon; 24th Aug 2012 at 15:36.

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    The complaint of shrimps matter must be very serious till AQ resort of banning. Why not provide more solutions and methods for AQ so that the ban will be lift off soon and the buying and selling become more transparent so that AQ will not get into trouble if the deals gets sour.

    Lets hope this problem solve ASAP....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrimperax View Post
    Hi. I am new here, however knowing of this situation i have decided to set up a temporary sales channel for the innocent hobbyist that are being embroiled in this issue. I know some of you might disagree with my methods but i believe in a hobby ,any kind of restrictions still do impede the spread of this hobby. By having a blanket ban is definitely not the best way to solve the problem.Although it will help to prevent flippers but it also makes things difficult for the other rules abiding hobbyist- sellers/ buyers.

    The blog i set up as a temporary sales channel is ****** ,fellow hobbyist can feel free to use it to pitch your sales,but do abide by the rules i set there.

    I respect AQ's owner decision on this and i will not argue about it but rather i will do something that will benefit other hobbyist that are innocently embroiled into this.
    Thats a good idea... For a start.. Hope the rest would put their ad there..


    To Fish &amp; Beyond....
    Last edited by Simon; 24th Aug 2012 at 15:37.
    To be a Rock & not to Roll..

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    agree with Shrimperax.. nice!!!!!

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Thanks Shrimperax.. will definitely check it out.

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    nice work, Shrimperax

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    I am not a shrimp keeper but I do understand that having to do without a Buy/Sell section to clear shrimps can be difficult for some. I also think that Shrimperax's proactive attitude rather than just complaining is commendable.

    But what happens when a dispute over a deal on your blog happens? Who will settle it? Will they bring the arguments/namecallings back onto AQ? Would that then defeat the purpose of the ban?

    Just my 2 cents opinion.
    chongyu

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Quote Originally Posted by rascal View Post
    One example is that buyer keep blaming and accusing seller of cheating when purchased shrimps "color fade" or death where it clearly stated that the seller will not bare any responsibility of the color and death of shrimp after transaction. this is one of the main problem i believe!
    Thanks rascal for the explanation.

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Hi all,

    Thank you for your views. Just a friendly reminder to remain civil and do not let this discussion deteriorate into a war of words. It will be ironic if that happens.

    While we are not responding actively, we are listening to this discussion.
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
    Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:
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    A woman: without her, man is nothing.

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Quote Originally Posted by Shrimperax View Post
    Honestly speaking.. why should any kind of platform be responsible for any disputes arising from the deal. It is should in the case of ' WILLING BUYER ,WILLING SELLER'. All the buyer needs to do is to open his eyes big enough to discern what is good and what is bad, What can be bought and what cannot be. In the case if you already paid for the goods after viewing it then there shouldn't be any disputes that will arise from it because if anything goes wrong it is your own fault for not being meticulous enough . Now to the 'IF' question, IF they are to bring any kind of disputes back to the platform, the moderators can simply give them a warning / ban / disallow their postings, it is as simple as that. The people in conflict should know who's turf they are stepping on, should they go against any of the rules which disrupts the peace in the community, they WILL be restricted. The next thing i am going to say is that, if you want to prevent disputes , this forum might as well shut down the whole marketplace. Why? It is because every deal has the potential to result in disputes, the proportion of shrimp related disputes are in greater numbers because of the larger community of shrimp hobbyist we have in this forum-(simply has to do with proportion).
    I personally believe the purpose of this ban is to allow a sort of a 'cooldown' time , a time whereby admin and mods can re-write/re-think over certain rules, making it more stringent to prevent the abuse/circumvention of it.
    BUT if this ban is purely just to prevent that ' contentious-ness / quarrelsome-ness ' , I am sorry to say but this is simply JUST the easy way out, little thought must have gone into it prior to implementing it.
    I'm not for or against the ban on sales of shrimps. But if its simply a case of willing buyer willing seller, the ban would not have been imposed. And the ban is exactly to prevent the need to give warnings or ban forumners. I think shrimp sales have the highest rate of disputes because of the grading and the large amount of cash involved. And if the ban is to allow for a cooldown period, then a sale blog would be bridging the cooldown period.
    I know that my postings might have stepped on the toes of many a shrimp keeper but these are just my humble opinions and I hope that none of you would take offense.
    chongyu

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    The argumentative posts by Shrimperax and related posts have been archived to keep this thread clean and allow the original discussion to continue.

    There are comments for and against the decision to ban shrimp sales, and we value all the feedback. Although we don't agree to all of them, they do give us insights. Let's keep it civil and avoid personal attacks.

    Thank you.
    Vincent - AQ is for everyone, but not for 'u' and 'mi'.
    Why use punctuation? See what a difference it makes:
    A woman, without her man, is nothing.
    A woman: without her, man is nothing.

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Now back to topic and suggestions.

    The itrader is a good initiative but I believe it's under utilize. It should be encourage further. It'll be good if every buyer can give the feedback once sales has been concluded. And even when things goes wrong but was resolve privately, this should be place into feedback. This builds up credibility of the seller and also the buyer. But this will need all hobbyist help to make it work. A fellow hobbyist might want to even give a short story or what I will call a RTS or rate the service. Give a bit of recognition to some of our passionate hobbyists.

    Buy/Sell should not be use as a platfom to make a profit. It should be use to offload used items or excess fauna and sold as used pricing or below retail. This allows and encourages new hobbyist who are low on budget to start.

    However, there are some of us who are passionate in breeding. Eg. Shrimps and Guppies. these are people who have spend loads of time, effort and money on this hobby. We should recognise this people as breeders. They would always have excess stocks they want to offload. To sell or give. It's hard to define if a hobbyist putting up a sale a real breeder or just someone who flips. (Buy from somewhere cheap and sell them for profit) I can understand some breeders will sell their stock above retail. This is understandable being that they have put so much effort in breeding them. I will not argue with that. So whether they are selling below market or higher, its entirely up to them. Buyers are responsible to research, check etc. Once the exchange is made; deal is done. Both Seller and Buyer is responsible to resolve their own dispute privately.

    Just a suggestion,
    - increase the criteria for someone to post sales. this will slightly deter mass sellers (who are flipping)
    - a seller can only put up 1 post to sell. seller can only post new sales after 30 days.
    - for hobbyist who have registered themselves as breeder, can post up to 2 and must wait for another 30 days to post new sales.
    - seller must post current pictures of the item sold or else the sale will not be posted.
    - seller is responsible to provide specific detail of the item
    - seller must display their mobile number. Seller can demand that they be sms/whatapps or call.
    - "Breeders" must register themselves. Breeders are passionate hobbyist who breed their shrimps, guppy etc from home. they give or sell their fauna. If they sell, they may sell below, retail or above market price.
    - To be a breeder, they must register. The criteria to be a breeder will be more stringent. For starters, as I mentioned earlier, they can register first. Mods discuss and decide to approve or not. Or a thread for vote.
    - AQ can set a cap for a number of breeders per year.
    - application is for 12 months and must be reapplied.
    - Members who abuse; accusing the seller of something without proof will be banned from Sales. If Seller retaliate, same banned for seller. There's no need for any party to argue to say I'm right you're wrong. Again dispute must be taken outside of the forum. AQ is not a mediator and not oblige to investigate and give their judgment.

    In other forums I know of, they divide Seller into two kinds. Non Commercial Ad and Commercial Ad. Non Commercial Ad is define as used, hand me down, opened or 2nd hand item. While Commercial Ad are unused and sold for profit. They charge members who uses Commercial Ad. However, this forum was created with no thought of monetary gain. By Hobbyist For Hobbyists right? Haha. Its easier for them as the product are non living.

    Selling life things are different. It is the responsibility of the buyer and seller on the transaction. Try going to LFS. Buy some fauna. Bring home, one fish die. Do you go back to the store and ask back for refund? It is a living thing. Buyer check the fauna closely. Don't rush it. You're not sure what you are doing, get a friend who is experience to come along. AQ only provide the platform and in no way responsible for any dispute that may arise. AQ shouldn't even bother to investigate, eventhough its noble act. Dispute between seller and Buyer should be done privately. If it cannot be resolve, find a mediator; unbias to help come to a compromise. Should it not; one can pursuit the matter and bring it up to case. Members who feel "cheated" should not post or whine in AQ. Be a better person, learn from it and move on. Any such post, AQ to bring it down immediately.

    The Buy/Sell is a simple platform provided to us. Let's use it as what the owner intended it to be in the first place. AQ is non profitable. The mods don't get paid. They can't be in here all the time. They are merely doing this for the passion and selected to be one. I'm very sure the owner have their own reason in selecting the mods base on whatever merit they're looking for. They are here to help. We're shouldnt be going against them or the people running AQ. They are not the enemy. We're here together to make AQ a place where we can share our hobby and learn. They are trying to make things better for everyone. Sadly, regardless of any forum you go to, there will always be a few bad apples. Hence, it is our responsbility to keep it "clean". As one mentioned, it doesn't cost a thing to swallow a humble pie.
    VSGenesis
    "The success or failure of your deeds, does not add up to the sum of your life. Your spirit cannot be weighed. Judge yourself by the intentions of your actions, and by the strength with which you faced the challenges that have stood in your way. The Universe is vast and we are so small. There is really only one thing we can ever truly control whether we are good or evil." - Oma Desala (Stargate - SG1)
    http://hisstoryimmortalised.blogspot.sg/

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Quote Originally Posted by elements View Post
    When buyer wasnt happy with their purchase, this should be clarify on the spot like some mentioned many times, view before buying.
    Therefore, i dont see why this AQ wants to Ban such sale!!
    "quarrelsome and contentious nature" of the shrimp community, what's the meaning of shrimp community? The Mods have labeled we are making too many problems for the forum?
    Oh my god, this is hilarious...
    Agree! Its totally absurb!

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Much agree with you bro,

    many a times as a seller (I don't view myself as a breeder, but simply to ease the bioload in my tank should the livestocks breed excessively to fellow hobbyists), I'll follow-up with the buyers (some kind ones update me with the status of the live stocks on their own ) on the status. Am saddened at times when some told me they suffered some casualties (due to improperly cycled tanks), so normally I'll do "background checks" on especially new hobbyists if their tanks are cycled & ready to introduce any livestocks... [Sorry to those bros whom bought from me previously if you found me 'naggy'...]. & my style is to always let the buyer have a physical look at & check the 'goods' even before I conclude the deal (so buyers always have a choice to 'reject' the deal with reasonable reasons if there was any misfit.)

    Guess when you sell your stuffs with proper due care & diligence & honesty, people whom'd bought from you previously will know & appreciate it (I'd got people whom were referred by my previous buyers and bought from me also...) Unless one just intend to do a 'one-time' business and risk smearing one's own reputation, if not, it's surely not worth it in my opinion... So I always make it a point to rate my buyers on iTrader after the deal (although sadly some don't reciprocate for whatever reasons...)

    Was rather shocked & saddened with the recent ban on shrimps sale also... As adults (or maybe to some new young hobbyists), I guess we should have the maturity and sensibility to deal appropriately should anything goes wrong during a deal. Hopefully the ban gets lifted soon so that genuine hobbyists can share this wonderful hobby again like before.

    AQ United!!

    Quote Originally Posted by VSGenesis View Post
    Now back to topic and suggestions.

    The itrader is a good initiative but I believe it's under utilize. It should be encourage further. It'll be good if every buyer can give the feedback once sales has been concluded. And even when things goes wrong but was resolve privately, this should be place into feedback. This builds up credibility of the seller and also the buyer. But this will need all hobbyist help to make it work. A fellow hobbyist might want to even give a short story or what I will call a RTS or rate the service. Give a bit of recognition to some of our passionate hobbyists.

    Buy/Sell should not be use as a platfom to make a profit. It should be use to offload used items or excess fauna and sold as used pricing or below retail. This allows and encourages new hobbyist who are low on budget to start.

    However, there are some of us who are passionate in breeding. Eg. Shrimps and Guppies. these are people who have spend loads of time, effort and money on this hobby. We should recognise this people as breeders. They would always have excess stocks they want to offload. To sell or give. It's hard to define if a hobbyist putting up a sale a real breeder or just someone who flips. (Buy from somewhere cheap and sell them for profit) I can understand some breeders will sell their stock above retail. This is understandable being that they have put so much effort in breeding them. I will not argue with that. So whether they are selling below market or higher, its entirely up to them. Buyers are responsible to research, check etc. Once the exchange is made; deal is done. Both Seller and Buyer is responsible to resolve their own dispute privately.

    Just a suggestion,
    - increase the criteria for someone to post sales. this will slightly deter mass sellers (who are flipping)
    - a seller can only put up 1 post to sell. seller can only post new sales after 30 days.
    - for hobbyist who have registered themselves as breeder, can post up to 2 and must wait for another 30 days to post new sales.
    - seller must post current pictures of the item sold or else the sale will not be posted.
    - seller is responsible to provide specific detail of the item
    - seller must display their mobile number. Seller can demand that they be sms/whatapps or call.
    - "Breeders" must register themselves. Breeders are passionate hobbyist who breed their shrimps, guppy etc from home. they give or sell their fauna. If they sell, they may sell below, retail or above market price.
    - To be a breeder, they must register. The criteria to be a breeder will be more stringent. For starters, as I mentioned earlier, they can register first. Mods discuss and decide to approve or not. Or a thread for vote.
    - AQ can set a cap for a number of breeders per year.
    - application is for 12 months and must be reapplied.
    - Members who abuse; accusing the seller of something without proof will be banned from Sales. If Seller retaliate, same banned for seller. There's no need for any party to argue to say I'm right you're wrong. Again dispute must be taken outside of the forum. AQ is not a mediator and not oblige to investigate and give their judgment.

    In other forums I know of, they divide Seller into two kinds. Non Commercial Ad and Commercial Ad. Non Commercial Ad is define as used, hand me down, opened or 2nd hand item. While Commercial Ad are unused and sold for profit. They charge members who uses Commercial Ad. However, this forum was created with no thought of monetary gain. By Hobbyist For Hobbyists right? Haha. Its easier for them as the product are non living.

    Selling life things are different. It is the responsibility of the buyer and seller on the transaction. Try going to LFS. Buy some fauna. Bring home, one fish die. Do you go back to the store and ask back for refund? It is a living thing. Buyer check the fauna closely. Don't rush it. You're not sure what you are doing, get a friend who is experience to come along. AQ only provide the platform and in no way responsible for any dispute that may arise. AQ shouldn't even bother to investigate, eventhough its noble act. Dispute between seller and Buyer should be done privately. If it cannot be resolve, find a mediator; unbias to help come to a compromise. Should it not; one can pursuit the matter and bring it up to case. Members who feel "cheated" should not post or whine in AQ. Be a better person, learn from it and move on. Any such post, AQ to bring it down immediately.

    The Buy/Sell is a simple platform provided to us. Let's use it as what the owner intended it to be in the first place. AQ is non profitable. The mods don't get paid. They can't be in here all the time. They are merely doing this for the passion and selected to be one. I'm very sure the owner have their own reason in selecting the mods base on whatever merit they're looking for. They are here to help. We're shouldnt be going against them or the people running AQ. They are not the enemy. We're here together to make AQ a place where we can share our hobby and learn. They are trying to make things better for everyone. Sadly, regardless of any forum you go to, there will always be a few bad apples. Hence, it is our responsbility to keep it "clean". As one mentioned, it doesn't cost a thing to swallow a humble pie.

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    Re: BAN of Shrimps Sales on AQ... so where else??

    Quote Originally Posted by paladin View Post
    Agree! Its totally absurb!
    Actually, it's totally absurd that you spell it 'absurb'!

    A forum that is free withdraws some of their 'services' and its members who joined free of charge calls their actions 'absurb' and 'hilarious'. Any constructive suggestions?

    Anyway, I second VSGenesis. Once, I sold something I had spare and I asked the buyer to do the iTrader thing. He said ok, but nothing was given. He never came back to say what I sold him was not good or bad. AQ should not be the 'judge' but just a platform. Sellers who consistently sell good things should be given itrader points so that buyers can know who are the good sellers or bad sellers.
    More than ONE fish = Fish
    More than ONE species of fish = Fishes

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