Where to get NO3 and PO4?

**J Chu** · 5th Mar 2004, 13:24

Dear all,

I'm very new at planted tank and hope you all don't mind my basic questions and cld just point me to the right direction. I tried to read as much as I can from the forum and get the idea that I shd be dosing my 4ft tank with NO3 and PO4. Can someone kindly advise me where I can get them from?

In addition, is there anything else I shd dose the tank with?

My water parameter is PH 6.5-6.8
4ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft
Lighting 4x36watts PL; 2x30watts Dennerle tropical life FL
Have dwarf hairgrass, pearl grass, and a few background plants - one which is dark long leafs like a spring onion but much darker ; another is a bulb with big green leaves like a fern. Also have some stem rossettes.

Many thanks,
John.

**cheeboonyong** · 5th Mar 2004, 14:04

Issue you should understand first is how much NO3 and PO4 to maintain, and not how much to add.

Typically, NO3 and PO4 is already available in the tank via fish food, fish waster, decomposition of organic plant material, etc. NO3 and PO4 is taken up by plants as nutrient intake. So if there is insufficient NO3 and PO4, plants are stunted. Hence, first understand how much you have before you can know how much to add. For some tanks, the rate of depletion is so low that it is not necessary to add NO3 and PO4 other than via fish food. Oh, by the way, it's the N and P that plants want, not NO3 and PO4 per se. You can add N and P using various methods, not just NO3 or PO4, though they are the most common method.

I know I'm not answering your questions directly but I think it's important for you to understand this concept first.

If you decide to add them, I would suggest Dr Mallick's range. He has potassium nitrate, potassium sulphate, potassium phosphate at reasonable prices.

**cheeboonyong** · 5th Mar 2004, 14:07

In addition to NO3 and PO4, I personally add TMG. Plants need more than just NO3 and PO4, which is pre-mixed in TMG. I also add some micro-nutrients (mainly Iron) on a daily basis.

I suppose you're already adding CO2? How about base fertiliser?

Anti-clorine sometimes, when I do a big water change. I skip when my water change is minor.

For heavy root plants, I add nutrient tabs into the substrate.

**juggler** · 5th Mar 2004, 14:30

John: what are the current problems with your plants?

**Sleepy_lancs** · 5th Mar 2004, 15:54

If its not broken, don't fix it.

**J Chu** · 6th Mar 2004, 15:18

Dear all,

Thanks very much for the advice. I'm putting CO2 at around 3 bubbles per sec. that seems to get the plants bubbling. When I reduce to 1-1.5 bubbles, the plants seem to stop pearling. Base fert. is dennerle with river sand on top -done by the guy who helped me set up the tank.

How much shd my reading of N, P, K be? I managed to get fr the forum that co2 shd be 20-30 ppm, right? Is there a place where I can all test kits or if possible affordable meters. The only meter I'm using is a simple PH meter from mainland.

Where can I get Dr Mallick's solutions? Is it readily available from aquariums. I live in Pasir Ris and so normally go to Super at the NTUC chalets or cld also go to Sam Yick's at East Point via MRT.

Thank you all the sifu's here..... It's really great that you all are so ready to share and support.

With best regards,
John.

**Aeon** · 6th Mar 2004, 20:39

You can get Dr Mallick's retail outlets from his website.
www.singaporehydroponics.com

I just went to the Lavender shop today. Pretty straightforward and cheap.

**PeterGwee** · 6th Mar 2004, 20:50

John, try to shoot for the 20-30ppm range of CO2 throughout the entire photoperiod before going about doing any fertilization. The nutrients are not going to get use up much if you screw up on the CO2. Once you had the CO2 properly adjusted by means of pH and KH measurements, you can then do the fertilization routine that I will suggest for you later. Do you feel S$120-$150 for an NO3 kit is affordable? If not, you are better off doing the estimative index method.

How many critters you have in there? Is the tank heavily planted?

Regards
Peter Gwee

**J Chu** · 7th Mar 2004, 08:53

Hi Aeon: thanks very much. will go to Aquanfauna and hve a look this today.
Hi Peter: Thanks also for you advice. How do I know when I've got 20-30 ppm of CO2? Yes, I wld like to consider the NO3 kit - is it more accurate/convenient?

Thanks,
John.

**crandf** · 7th Mar 2004, 09:43

Go pasir ris farmway to get your Dr Mallick's. Its at the shop selling seamonkeys. Lot number I forgot, but its the one that is very far from Lot 35, on the opposite side of the canal. I went yesterday, it has I think almost the entire range of Dr Mallick's fertilizers.

**PeterGwee** · 7th Mar 2004, 13:50

John, for CO2 level just measure the pH and KH of your tank water at the start of the photoperiod and end of it. Read it off a pH/KH/CO2 table available on many internet sites or use chuck gadd's calculator Link here.

Yes, the Hach kit is a lab grade kit hence much better quality than most hobbyist kits available at LFS.
The contact for the local distributor
Shecey (Singapore) Pte. Ltd.
51 Bukit Batok Crescent
#07-30/31 Unity Centre
Singapore 658077
Telephone: (65) 6 276 3383
Fax: (65) 6 278 2846
email: [email protected]

Regards
Peter Gwee

**J Chu** · 9th Mar 2004, 11:59

Hi Peter,

Thanks very much. I tested using electronic PH probe and JBL KH test kit. PH was 7.5 and KH around 12 degree. Is KH too high because I've put in too much baking soda? What wld be an ideal KH range?

I did a 30% water change and increase co2 to around 4-5 bubbles per second. Will measure again tonight.

Why do we need such an accurate NO3 test kit?

BTW, thanks to all the advices here, i managed to find Dr Mallick's Lushgro -Aqua in Pasir Ris. PUt in 20 ml (mine tank is 210 lt). Plants seem to be bubbling better the same night!

Thanks, John.

**J Chu** · 9th Mar 2004, 12:01

Peter,

BTW, my pearl grass seems to be covered with a dark green film, which eventually hardens and looks like short black hair on the leaf. Is this BGA? How do I get rid of it?

I could use a pincer and pull out the film before it hardens but is very tedious - what I am doing now.

Thanks, John.

**Aeon** · 9th Mar 2004, 13:11

For a planted tank, according to Chuck's calculator, I'll try to maintain a
KH of 5 and a pH of 6.7 to yield 30ppm of CO2. That'll require about 3wpg of light to balance things.

Singapore water is around 0-1 KH, so assuming you have raised it to 5. Every 50% water change will reduce it to 2.5. Adding Sodium Bicarbonate to it every time is tedious. So I would suggest putting calcarous filter media to permanently maintain a +2-3 KH. Some people use coral chips, I used Mr Aqua Bio Rings. They serve 2 purpose. +2 for my KH and increase biolfiltration.

Because your KH is too high, the high buffering prevented your CO2 from dropping the pH, despite 4-5bps. Maybe the diffusion not efficient also? so lower your KH and adjust your CO2 until you get a slightly acidic pH like +- 6.7.

May I know what fishes you keep? Acidic water may not suit all fishes.

I assume your pearl grass to be Glossostigma. My experience with algae / BBA / BGA infected glosso is that the affected leaves have little chance of survival. Besides being infected, are the top leaves also yellowed? transparent? withering? might be nutrient defficiency. The LushGro ferts should help.

Cut away the affected leaves patiently. Trim bad leaves away. Optimise water parameters and use lots of patience. If you lose lots of plants after pruning, plant more back. If not, reduce the nutrients, lights, CO2, etc accordingly to the amount of plants you have left.

I hope that helped.

**PeterGwee** · 9th Mar 2004, 16:55

John, how much baking soda did you dump in there?

...A KH of 12 is fine and provides adequate buffering for the acid (CO2). The problem is the need to add loads of baking soda to keep it there though. As long as the KH is 3 or more, you are fine.

NO3 is a macro nutrient for plants and many hobbyist kits tend to give weird or false results which is why a lab grade kit like the ones from LaMotte or Hach is the way to go if you wish to test.

LushGro Aqua is an all in one mix of macros and micros which I think lacks flexibility when it comes to dosing. Each tank behaves differently and the need for macros and micros need to be adjust accordingly. I would recommend you to go with KNO3, KH2PO4 and maybe Dr Mallick's micros (cheap), TMG or Seachem Flourish. The use of separate nutrients allow you to tailor to the plants needs according to the amount of light, bioload, plant load and plant type accordingly.

For your info, your CO2 is way too low! 11ppm of CO2 is not going to do much but with 2W/G, you have more room for error. Try to aim for a pH of 7.0-7.2 using CO2 only with the KH of 12 for the 20-30ppm range.

Regards
Peter Gwee

**J Chu** · 11th Mar 2004, 08:51

Hi Aeon/Peter,

I have abt 40 Neon tretras, 5 Harlequins, 5 SAE, 6 ottos and 50-70 shrimps.

Pearl grass - the new leafs look very strong and green. OK - will trim away the old leaves. The stalks above the soil also turning dark brown. Bad sign?

Baking soda - over the course of last 6 mths, have used abt 3 bottles. Change abt 30% water weekly.

Lights - I have the 2 FL at the back - seems to do well for the tall plants bubbling. Then 4 PLs in front which keep the pearl grass and hairgrass bubbling. If the plants are bubbling, does it mean lights and co2 ok?

I can't find Dr Mallick's micro in Pasir Ris - will try again. What's TMG - is it a brand?

Thanks a lot for your advices...

John.

**Aeon** · 11th Mar 2004, 09:05

when my tank was in its worst condition, i had pearling riccia. so pearling and bubbling shouldn't be a good indicator. look at the overall picture.

i think you should boost your macro nutrients fertilisation regime. yellowing/browning leaves and stems are signs of defficiency.

maybe your plants are too stressed out, how long are your lights on?

TMG is Tropica Master Grow, Dr Mallick's addresses you can find here: www.singaporehydroponics.com

**TanVincent** · 11th Mar 2004, 09:07

Why not make a trip down to Novena to purchase the straight ferts. At the same time, you can walk a little to Plantas Aquaticas and Eco-Culture....Will not be a wasted trip

Cheers
Vincent