Reply With QuoteDone most of the planting of moss last night. adding some plants tonight.
Got another terrarium tank, no brand, 18" length to move other 2 froggies in here.
Just a simple setup for this tank. backdrop is also foam background covered with cocopeat.
Attachment 32540Attachment 32541
Done most of the planting of moss last night. adding some plants tonight.
I like the outlook of this tank... do be careful when feeding your frogs crickets and mealworms... try to hand feed them and make sure they finish their food... if not the escaped/lost crickets/mealworms will "bite" down your background and you will have lots of holes in them...
“Frogs have it easy, they can eat what bugs them”
"If you have no critics you'll likely have no success."
- Malcolm X
Glory Glory Man Utd!
DeZ aka Desmond
I really do think it is cramped when you put two white tree frogs in anything less than a 30 gallon tank; this most certainly is not anywhere close to a permanent comfortable set up for full grown specimens; I hope you realise this.
Crickets are the nasty ones, mealworms will probably just borrow and emerge as beetles some time later. They breed rather easily I might add.
Hi delhezi
Mind asks you some straight questions,
30 gallon tank not suitable for Whites? c'mon can you be serious...?
What about my 4ft high 3ft long 2ft wide (120gallon) ? Now I have 20 Whites (half of my palm size) and 10 White- Lipped (palm size), so is my current terrarium still a suitable habitat for my monster kermits? So are you going to say I'm not giving my Whites a comfortable place?
Before I started Whites, I'd seek many advices from many enthusiastic experienced Whites keepers and personally saw their Whites' habitats on my extensive travel to Australia, Papua New Guinea/Jayapura (went Whites hunting) and almost worldwide for two years, just to ensure what I'm doing the Whites' up-keeping correctly. So That why I got my own built to able to keep more than 40 full-grown Whites comfortably. Its seems that you dispirit White newbies hard work's effort certainly a bad place for the White to live in instead of encourage their hard work and effect. I would like you a very experienced Whites keeper to be more reassuring and sensitive to join me to do our best to promote and keep this vivarium section an encouraging, enjoyable and lively for any newbies to join in and as soon they got wise in Whites keeping. Then there will be a lot of lessons of high and low situations we all can learn to cope, and even we can encourage one another and share affliction together if their Whites got lost/escape or sick or kana RIP. Is this okay with you?
Want to learn more so that i can give back...
Hi Eddy, kindly allow me to share my views here.Originally Posted by eddy planer
Hi delhezi
Mind asks you some straight questions,
30 gallon tank not suitable for Whites? c'mon can you be serious...?
What about my 4ft high 3ft long 2ft wide (120gallon) ? Now I have 20 Whites (half of my palm size) and 10 White- Lipped (palm size), so is my current terrarium still a suitable habitat for my monster kermits? So are you going to say I'm not giving my Whites a comfortable place?
Before I started Whites, I'd seek many advices from many enthusiastic experienced Whites keepers and personally saw their Whites' habitats on my extensive travel to Australia, Papua New Guinea/Jayapura (went Whites hunting) and almost worldwide for two years, just to ensure what I'm doing the Whites' up-keeping correctly. So That why I got my own built to able to keep more than 40 full-grown Whites comfortably. Its seems that you dispirit White newbies hard work's effort certainly a bad place for the White to live in instead of encourage their hard work and effect. I would like you a very experienced Whites keeper to be more reassuring and sensitive to join me to do our best to promote and keep this vivarium section an encouraging, enjoyable and lively for any newbies to join in and as soon they got wise in Whites keeping. Then there will be a lot of lessons of high and low situations we all can learn to cope, and even we can encourage one another and share affliction together if their Whites got lost/escape or sick or kana RIP. Is this okay with you?
Firstly let me declare that I have ZERO knowledge with regards to whites so I cannot comment much on the technical aspects of keeping whites.
But what I would like to emphasis is that we are all in the community to share each other's experience and downfalls. I believe that they are many people whom have varying level of success with different critters so what does it tells us?
For example, today during my class, when I was teaching my class on pitcher repoting and separation, while tearing down the old pot, guess what we found? A whole brood of vampire babies in the substrate of peat moss. I would say that the environment is far from conducive for the breeding of the vampires. In fact one of our members here who is on staff in the school tells me that I am just plain lucky.
Do i get offended?
No. In fact I told him while I have to agree with him that to a certain extent I am lucky, what is more important(for my case) is that the crabs breed and there are visible tangible outputs i.e the baby crabs! The 15 primary 5 students learn something today!
Again, does this mean that my set up is wrong and therefore not suitable for the housing and up keeping of the crabs? I do not think so.
Different folks have different encounters. So while Delhezi may have his views and he shares it here. It may sound contradicting to what you have experience and you may find him discouraging but why not let us look at it from another perspective? And that is hopefully whoever reads what Delhezi posts, they will be inspired to find out more before jumping in to the band wagon of keeping frogs.
Let us all learn to give and share without getting offended.
We are all here to promote our hobby/passion.
Let us do it lovingly and in a manner worthy that of a mature adult.
Thank you for reading.
Last edited by David Moses Heng; 4th Oct 2012 at 22:58.
Hi David
I do appreciate Delhezi's view and comments very much. I must say he's an asset to this viva section. However, I felt his certain remarks will back off any newbies due to that. That's why I need him to learn to be more encouraging to any newbies to build this viva section a good one. Look at other forums(USA). Why are they so successfully and there are more and more international newbies started feeling home with USA frogs or viva forums? Do you know what, everyone there are so warm, inspired and encouraging when their build went wrong or too ugly to comment.
Yes, we're trying to follow the examples from US forums, and learn to give/ sharing without any offend with warm and encouraging way so that we maybe surpass the USA forums. If they can do, we can do even better. agree?
My apology to delhezi if he got offend with my pervious posting.
Actually Delhezi is not wrong and so is Eddy... there's really no definite right and wrong way to go about doing this especially when it comes to live animals and live plants... even information you get off Google comes from personal experiences which can varies from 1 continent to another...
If the size of the White's is less then 2.5in I would say go ahead and keep 2-4 in a 30 gallon tank... but once they grow another 1-1.5in then it would be time to upgrade their tank for their own comfort...
I have almost 20 years of experience with White's and I wouldn't even dare say I'm an expert but based on my past experiences and personal encounter, I had at 1 time 25-28 White's tree frog in a 120 Gallon tank if my calculation for a 48in x 24in x 24in tank is correct and I didn't have much problem with them...
Eddy I know where you are coming from, but sometimes being nice to newbies will not help them much either, they shouldn't be spoonfed and they should in a way go through their own trial and error like all of us did in one way or another... only then they will learn and understand what we have been saying and are trying to say...
“Frogs have it easy, they can eat what bugs them”
"If you have no critics you'll likely have no success."
- Malcolm X
Glory Glory Man Utd!
DeZ aka Desmond
Wow... What a good post to read...all experts here with their views.
From a newbie point of view..i would say all of you have your valid points. And what is important is for newbies to read all views and yet do their own homework to enrich their knowledge and contribute to the hobby and awareness of our nature world.
Hmmm... Raytan12...are you still here? I hope your tank is doing fine? Do post photos of your progress! Would love to see and hear more from you.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
No, I think 30 gallons is a minimum for a pair of adult whites. In general my premise is simple. As is quite easily established, no one has the key to understanding the works of perfect captivity for our little friends. Therefore, it would only make sense to obtain consistent, and reasonable ideas on sustainable husbandry from a variety of sources, and put that in place as a suggestion. Sure, it may not be completely correct, but it certainly isn't wrong. This is why I recommend the standard 20 gallons for one white's, and 10 gallons for each consequent specimen.
I do not have a good load of personal experience; and should thus opt for the compilation of the experiences of many, many others whose time with frog keeping has been far more established than what we have here in Singapore. I would dare say that if I were in your shoes, I would probably not do the same thing; but how right am I when your frogs are thriving?
That takes skill, dedication and experience that you have, and I am very certain newcomers do not immediately grasp; for that matter, neither have I.
The main problem persists not with the above. Are we as a country, taking the right steps towards proper husbandry at home? How far are we from actually obtaining legal and correct attempts at maintaining a proper culture where we put the needs of that creature we take from the wild, and into our homes, first?
We are far from reaching that. Do we want to establish a system of chain stores with sickened fire belly toads or baby bearded dragons kept on rough sand like petco does in America? We are not too far from achieving that when you notice little children purchasing terrapins and keeping them in Tupperware containers. In this sense, I always feel it is better to play devil's advocate, to encourage the right amount of research for our charges. I will however, take note of your comments and phrase myself in a more encouraging way.
Want to learn more so that i can give back...
Delhezi,
Like in my previous post, I don't think that you are trying to discourage anyone at all. In fact, if we are to take your prompting and sharing in a positive light, what I see is that you are encouraging potential frog keepers or even seasoned players to read up more and understand as much as they can before they plunge into the lure of buying the cute little fellows.
Like you, I am dismayed with the way that terrapins are treated locally from the farms all the way to some hobbyists.
In order for learning to take place meaningfully, some must take on the role of a devil's advocate. If everyone is an angel and start to spoon feeding everyone, then how would meaningful in depth learning take place?
We want AVA to loosen the exotic trade, we must start the ball rolling by encouraging those keen to explore this avenue to read up as much as they can and show our worth before we collectively ask for the authorities to consider allowing more exotics for consideration to be kept as pets.
My 2 cents worth.
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