A newbie question on Algae

[good boy]

Hi all sifu,

I am currently having a 2ft bare tank containing some goldfish, tetras, guppies and pleco, with some oranment decorations. I am thinking of converting this tank into an aquascaping tank and thus has been doing some reading up (research) on nitrogen cycle, c02, lighting etc. Based on my understanding, algae is basically an aquatic plant, thus it needs the same living conditions (nitrates, co2, lighting) to survive. Algae will be a problem if we have more nutrients or C02, etc than the current plants can absorb, cos Algae will help with the excess.

My question here (sorry if it sounded stupid) is that bare tanks also nitrates, co2, lighting etc,. Then why is it that we rarely hear algae problems in bare tanks, when in fact it should be cos there are no aquatic plants to fight with the algae ? It only becomes a problem only once we start to do aquascaping ? Am I missing something here ? I would like to have a better understanding first before I aquascape my tank.

My bare tank is quite clean. Is it because of my 2 plecos doing a good job ? Can yamato shrimps do the same in place of plecos in aquascaping tanks ?

Many thanks in advance.

[Shadow]

Algae nutrient requirement is negligible, only tiny portion of algae is made of N, P, K and C, there rest are water. Thus regardless the amount of N, P and K in the water algae will still grow. Limited nutrient can only affect plant, not algae.

Fish only tank no algae because you are using very minimum light, just for viewing, put it under the sun and you will have algae outbreak in no time.

[good boy]

Thanks Shadow for the reply.
So does it mean that the main determinant for algae growth is Light Intensity, not the duration of light and nutrients ? Like my fish only tank, I on the light for close to 16 hrs a day, but I do not have algae cos the light intensity is low. If I put it under the sun, I will have algae outbreak even for just 2 hrs a day. The key to preventing algae growth is maintaining a light intensity long enough for the plants but not strong enough for algae ?
If this is correct, than the recommendation of over planting the aquarium and adding floating plants (is it frogbits) to absorb excess nutrients to prevent algae is not going to work well right ? cos algae will still grow if given strong intense light.
The questions are meant for all sifus, not just Shadow. Feel free to discuss and thanks for the patience.

[Shadow]

Algae is complex interaction of many factor, there is no one solution that fit all. Yes light intensity play major role but it doesn't mean under the sun will 100% have algae, if you know how to balance properly it wont have any algae even under the sun. Though to accomplished but I see people successfully doing it.

Key thing on planted tank, at least my version is to make sure the plants are healthy. Normally algae will stay away when plants are healthy, don't ask why . Focus on growing plants instead of killing algae

[tongyang]

Hi, other than high light intensity as one of the determinants, other factors like the high nutrient soil or subsequent fertilisers used will contribute algae growth. Ammonia spike caused by new soil and its high content in nutrients, are good in speeding up plant growth and tank cycling during startups. Downside of that, along with strong photo light and warmer tank temperature caused by the light, would be the algae outbreak. Algae outbreak at the initial stage is a known fact and I believe unavoidable for most aquascapers. So we minimise or overcome the problem by planting heavily to absorb excess nutrients, having more frequent water change, use algaecide, introduce algae crew, until situation turns better when the tank is more matured. It is advisable not to introduce fauna in the first 4 weeks. And plecos may not be suitiable for aquascape tank as they will stir up your soil and plants and ruin your scape.

[ralliart12]

...having more frequent water change...

How frequent should the water change be during a initial planted tank roll-out? 100% water-change, or...? But if we keep doing 100% waterchange, aren't we just "pouring" away the nutrients that leak out from our soil?

[Shadow]

Hi, other than high light intensity as one of the determinants, other factors like the high nutrient soil or subsequent fertilisers used will contribute algae growth. Ammonia spike caused by new soil and its high content in nutrients, are good in speeding up plant growth and tank cycling during startups. Downside of that, along with strong photo light and warmer tank temperature caused by the light, would be the algae outbreak.

Fruits of Thought: get bottle of distilled water, put it under direct sun. After a week, water turn green. How could that be? Its distilled water, 0 Ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 0 Potassium, 0 Phosphate, 0 for everything and yet algae still grow

[ralliart12]

...yet algae still grow

Algae spores can be in the air?

[good boy]

Fruits of Thought: get bottle of distilled water, put it under direct sun. After a week, water turn green. How could that be? Its distilled water, 0 Ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 0 Potassium, 0 Phosphate, 0 for everything and yet algae still grow

Interesting. So i guess based on all the inputs above, Algae will grow when there is enough light intensity. This is the basic requirement for algae growth. If there is not enough light, algae will not grow which is the case for most fish only tank. The rest of the factors, such as soil nutrients, fertisiliers, nitrate, co2 etc will determine the Speed of the growth. With strong light and enough nutrients, aglae will appear in no time.

Having said that, in aquascaping tank, we cannot control the light intensity, since some aquatic plants needed that amount of light to grow well. What we left is the maintain other secondary factors which controls the speed of algae growth...

[tongyang]

Water change is always partial, around 10-20%. We are not looking at total elimination of algae with all these balancing efforts because that's quite unlikely, just keeping their growth under control so that they won't overtake the tank.

[tetrakid]

The air contains more things than we have ever imagined.

Algae spores can be in the air?

[Shadow]

just keeping their growth under control so that they won't overtake the tank.

This is where algae crews are playing a major role to keep algae at bay.

[good boy]

Thanks all for your contributions.

The above discussion really gives me a better insight to what causes it and managing it. I plan to start my aquascaping with a low tech first. Will be researching on what hardy plants to put in my tank first. At this point, it is all researching and getting the stuff ready...

[good boy]

Hi Guys,

Just to share. I bought a new LED beamswork 1600 light recently to replace my T5 18W light. Everything remains the same. My tank water is no longer clear after a week. It has turned greenish. I googled on greenish water and guess what ? they said i am experiencing an Algae bloom.... these algae are in the water and not those attaching to tanks, plantas or rocks... Only way to resolvet this, other than using chemical is to off the lights for a few days and doing daily wc... So lesson learnt. Light intensity is very important in Algae control....

[Shadow]

Everything remains the same.

This is your problem, once you change your light intensity, your CO2 and fert dosing must change accordingly

[Braveyr]

Try otto cat , they seems to clean algae pretty GOOD

[ralliart12]

Try otto cat , they seems to clean algae pretty gd

What about red-nose shrimp? Heard they have some effect on algae too?

[tongyang]

Coincidentally just read about this from aqua journal oct 12. Their solution: add filter with abundant bacteria or apply Clear Dash.

[Neon tetra]

Yamato shrimps and oto helps, snails too

[good boy]

Thanks for all the reply and suggestions.

Shrimps, otto, SAE, etc will clear Algae if they grow on plants, substrates, rocks, or glass of the tanks. But what i am experiencing is water turning green, meaning there is an Algae bloom and these Algae are floating in the water itself. I have 4 ottos in my tank but they are of no help since the algae are not attached to anything. The symptom is similiar to what is describe here =>
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/ma...greenwater.htm

What I am doing now is to put back my old lighting, do a major WC and stop feeding the fishes for 2 days. c how it goes.