Rack With HMF Filtration

**VSGenesis** · 19th Oct 2012, 11:44

Hi there,
Before I ask my question, let me give a bit of background on what I'm working on.
1) I've setup my rack which is 1800mm in height and 1200mm in length.
2) 1st Tier (Top) - Empty.
3) 2nd Tier - 5 Gex M Tanks
4) 3rd Tier - 5 Gex M Tanks
5) 4th Tier (Bottom) - 4 Gex L Tanks

Filtration: HMF
1) Ocean Free Filter Pad (5cm thick) - Can't find finer. Apparently only Poret sells such fine and big filter mats
2) PVC pipe 16mm (No airstone used)
3) Currently being powered by BigBoy 8000

I would like to ask experience hobbyist who have set up such racks; if possible with pictures when using one central air pump, Eq. HiBlow placed on top tier.
1) How do you connect it to all the tanks?
2) What sort of splitter is used?
3) Do you do PVC? What's the advantage of using it other than looking neat?
4) Lastly the lighting used.

My friends here have been trying to explain to me on how to set it up (the pump) but I yet to grasp the idea of using what sort of splitter, which hiblow to use, 20 or 40. Etc. Perhaps the only thing I know is that I'll be using the black airline tube. I sincerely apologise as diagrams and pictures helps a lot. And due to other commitment, I can't freely spend as I used to. Hence, there's no room for me to experiment for this project.

Once again I apologise for being naive. Thanks.

PS: This hobbyist derrick uses piping to his splitter. How was the pvc inserted into the splitter; ensuring no leakage? http://guppyroom.blogspot.sg/

**VSGenesis** · 19th Oct 2012, 18:32

And guys, I forgot one more thing. Would it be better that I go with hiblow 20 or 40?

The picture is using Bigboy 8000 without airstone which I find its better. Hope someone can give a bit of guidance to this as future plans would be to do pipings from a reservoir to top up the tank water or when water changing. Removing water from tanks will be manually done.

I know it's going to be tedious to water change one by one but I don't want to risk spreading diseases or set up a sump, uv lights before and after the sump.

**felix_fx2** · 19th Oct 2012, 19:32

When you have time, visit polyart. See how they do and improvise.

Amazing pictures
https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=b...w=1360&bih=593

**felix_fx2** · 19th Oct 2012, 19:56

Similar case studies

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...-on-Tank-Setup

Picture is not mine, Credits belong to RonWill. the remainder where it is used for i can leave it to your imagination
It is called a Mantifold

**VSGenesis** · 23rd Oct 2012, 15:16

Hi all,

Thanks Felix. Would like to thank all those who replied to me personally and even send me diagrams on the setup.

Will set it up next week.

Cheers.

**fireblade** · 23rd Oct 2012, 15:30

I am using HB 20 for 12 tanks on sponge filter..
sometimes feel that it is not strong enough ... :P

for me I am a lazy man...
I just use 4 way Stainless Steel Aquarium Air Distributor Lever Valve like the one in the picture for 1 level, so 3 level 3 valve and using airline tubing to connect them . and secure with cable tie...

**VSGenesis** · 23rd Oct 2012, 17:14

Not strong enough? That's worrying. Using HMF. I'll be using on on 10 Gex M tanks and 4 Gex L tanks. Was hoping it'll be good enough with HB20. I'll have 8 BigBoy 8000 pump if I don't use a central pump like this. It's not logical. Too bad no one is selling off their HB40. That might be better perhaps?

**Navanod** · 23rd Oct 2012, 22:58

Originally Posted by fireblade

I am using HB 20 for 12 tanks on sponge filter..
sometimes feel that it is not strong enough ... :P

for me I am a lazy man...
I just use 4 way Stainless Steel Aquarium Air Distributor Lever Valve like the one in the picture for 1 level, so 3 level 3 valve and using airline tubing to connect them . and secure with cable tie...

From googling, I found someone claiming that a standard sponge filter requires 0.05-0.1cfm to work, depending on how much flow one wishes to have.
In theory, the HB20 can push 1.1cfm at max power (i.e zero resistance), so it should be able to provide max 22 outlets with moderate flow, or 11 outlets with high flow under ideal conditions.

I don't know how to estimate resistance unfortunately, but using airstones and that 4 ways stainless steel valve would add resistance, mainly because the tiny internal diameter of that 4 ways valve would only allow a fixed volume of air to pass through per second, resulting in back pressure, reducing the airflow and the number of outlets the pump can serve.
That fixed airflow volume caused by narrow valves and long tiny tubings also means that not all the outlets attached would be able to get air even if there's still alot of excess power from the pump side. Imagine air moving from 1 tiny tubing being split into 4 tubings, each would get only 1/4 of the max volume that can get through that 1st tubing. Either the back pressure cause that tubing to pop off (if the pump has high psi pressure, like HB100), or it results in limited flow.
I learnt that the hard way from trying to be lazy and doing it with the 4-ways valves like you, hahaha!

That is why LFSs take the trouble to make those PVC pipes manifolds, which allows air to reach all the outlets as well as reduce the resistance.
I suppose one of those steel manifolds with many many outlets can work. Max I saw was this 12 outlets one at LFS

If you just run one sponge off each valves and maybe attach a fine adjustment valve (those screw type instead of the 90 degrees elbow type) just before the outlets at the tank to balance the pressure evenly across all the 12 outlets, it may work?

**alvinchan80** · 24th Oct 2012, 00:54

Originally Posted by Navanod

From googling, I found someone claiming that a standard sponge filter requires 0.05-0.1cfm to work, depending on how much flow one wishes to have.
In theory, the HB20 can push 1.1cfm at max power (i.e zero resistance), so it should be able to provide max 22 outlets with moderate flow, or 11 outlets with high flow under ideal conditions.

I don't know how to estimate resistance unfortunately, but using airstones and that 4 ways stainless steel valve would add resistance, mainly because the tiny internal diameter of that 4 ways valve would only allow a fixed volume of air to pass through per second, resulting in back pressure, reducing the airflow and the number of outlets the pump can serve.
That fixed airflow volume caused by narrow valves and long tiny tubings also means that not all the outlets attached would be able to get air even if there's still alot of excess power from the pump side. Imagine air moving from 1 tiny tubing being split into 4 tubings, each would get only 1/4 of the max volume that can get through that 1st tubing. Either the back pressure cause that tubing to pop off (if the pump has high psi pressure, like HB100), or it results in limited flow.
I learnt that the hard way from trying to be lazy and doing it with the 4-ways valves like you, hahaha!

That is why LFSs take the trouble to make those PVC pipes manifolds, which allows air to reach all the outlets as well as reduce the resistance.
I suppose one of those steel manifolds with many many outlets can work. Max I saw was this 12 outlets one at LFS

If you just run one sponge off each valves and maybe attach a fine adjustment valve (those screw type instead of the 90 degrees elbow type) just before the outlets at the tank to balance the pressure evenly across all the 12 outlets, it may work?

TS: A PVC manifold would work better.. Much even distribution of air.. I used my previous HB20 with 28 valves via PVC manifold... But I guess that is the maximum because some are not giving me full psi...

Bro Nav, I seen a 78 valve manifold before.. Hahaha...

**VSGenesis** · 24th Oct 2012, 03:26

Navanod and alvin, appreciate the feedback/comments/advice.

Felix provided a picture above belonging to Ron. The drawing board I had is almost similiar, however I did this. (Picture attached) Ignore D. There's no D.

Concern whether I'm getting less output with this design plus as a friend pointed out more parts, potential to have leaks if I don't do it properly. A friend just did a great favour to show me exactly what I should do.

Once again thanks for the advices to a non tech and only know how to google hobbyist.

Thanks!

Good night!

**Navanod** · 24th Oct 2012, 11:22

Why would there be less output from this design? What caused this concern bro?
I like that bleeding valve...although I doubt you'll need it with a HB20.

Don't worry so much about leakages if you have to bleed the excess air anyway. Unless you are running at full capacity with zero tolerance for wastage, small leaks would not matter.
If the leaks are noisy, you can then find it easily and plug it with more PVC glue or epoxy putty. If its silent, then just leave it.

A bigger concern would be to balance all the pressures at all the outlets. Otherwise you would have crazy bubbling from some outlets and miserable flow from others.

**felix_fx2** · 24th Oct 2012, 11:54

Actually how much can the HB20 support?

If it can dish out more then what he need then small leaks are negligible (using epoxy seems like a good idea thou) but less parts less error on his end. Since its his 1st DIY of this scale.

Pressure should be lowest at the furthest point from the HB20.

**VSGenesis** · 24th Oct 2012, 18:47

Hi nava,
The concern is that the design I have and perhaps the pump model I'm using might not be good enough to supply to all 14 - 15 tanks. My thoughts always wonder to will the bottom tank receive the "suitable" or same output as its the furthest from the tank.

The rack I have is from Howell. 4 tier. Placing the pump on the top tier.
The idea is to have:
1st tier: Nothing. Just the pump and other stuffs. Storage.
2nd tier: 5 Gex M
3rd tier: 5 Gex M
4th tier: 4 Gex L

My friend have taken the trouble to come up with a diagram for me. Similiar to Ron's. The one way valve to use, pvc glue or epoxy to be used to ensure minimal leaks. The diagram I did versus the one my friend did; the latter saves more on material. If a frame structure versus my friend's diagram don't make much of a different then I'll go with the latter. It might saves space for me in future when I do plumbing for water top up.

I'm pretty much not a technically savvy person. So I take more time thinking and asking. So I apologise for that.

Perhaps the only change I will make is to the bleeder. Place it at the bottom instead at the top.

@ felix, as always thank you. I've been reading up on the HB20 on several forums online. Some say good for 10 outlets while others say 15. They are however not using the setup that is being discuss here. They are using either those splitter type or those nice looking manifolds. No pvc or minimal of it were used. They place it near to the pump. Eg. 10 way manifold. Attached airline tubing. That is a lot of tubing and is messy for a rack.

Moving away from the setup, does anyone have any idea where I can get a more finer filter mat? the Ocean Free (same one being used by zonkkie) is not fine enough. It is working of course, my weekly records on the water parameters shows Nitrite and Nitrate spiking; PH dropping. But the draw back to it is possibly two, one frys can go through; not all the way and hence get stuck; dies. Two, it takes slightly longer to get the BB to colonise. (Not too concern about this)

I've thought of placing media as what GC had done to their HMF setup. I'll probably do it on 2 tanks, do recording and see the difference it's got during cycling.

Poret apparently is the best material to use for a HMF setup. It's just too bad that we don't have such filter pad locally that is finer than the Ocean Free.

**RonWill** · 25th Oct 2012, 01:33

Originally Posted by felix_fx2

It is called a Mantifold

I was glancing through and thought that the stair landing look kinda familiar (but not that neat!!

). The white thingie is a manifold...

and thanks for the memories.

Originally Posted by VSGenesis

I've thought of placing media as what GC had done to their HMF setup. I'll probably do it on 2 tanks, do recording and see the difference it's got during cycling

That unker dumped loads of Sera Siporax behind the HMFs to increase bacteria colonies and I did the same for my home racks. If you didn't catch him on a bad hair day, I'm sure he'll be happy to share his thoughts and yes, please do post updates.

Referring to your manifold image, the bleeding valve looks HUGE!!! A PVC ball valve is unnecessary when a single air-tubing valve will suffice. If you're sensitive to hissing sound from the bleed outlet, connecting a small air-stone will muffle hisses nicely.

Splitting the pump's output theoretically balances the air pressure but in practice, the loop design offers little advantage unless you're distributing to 50-60 air outlets and running on 2 HB-80s (for redundancy).

The number of sponge filters a HB20 can adequately support is dependent on the depth of the tanks. A deeper/taller tank will need more pressure to pump air all the way down to the filters whereas a shallower tank requires much less. FWIW, i'm using a HB20 for 15 tanks (sponge filters and HMFs) but 12 of them are only 10" cubes and 3 are 24L x 18W x 18"H.

Let us know how you get on.

**VSGenesis** · 25th Oct 2012, 02:50

Thanks Ronwill. Will do. Will be busy this week, so I'll start moving with this somewhere next week. And ya, I'm going with that idea. The additional valve I have, I'll do just that.

The setup is in my room. The noise coming from the HMF is like a lullaby to me.

I like the idea of having additional media. I do have some Biohomme left. Probably will look at other medias if I were to use it for all tanks. Just cross my mind whether adding an air stone behind the filter mat will be beneficial to the colony.

Attached is just a rough picture of what I'm thinking. And found it!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyxyD...AE0C3&index=25

And no...the "unker" was busy introducing his pet birdie to some ladies.

But in his defence, the ladies eventually bought some fishes.

Reply above appreciated.

**RonWill** · 25th Oct 2012, 12:18

Originally Posted by VSGenesis

...the "unker" was busy introducing his pet birdie to some ladies.

But in his defence, the ladies eventually bought some fishes

Unker show birdie, ladies happy, buy fishes. Hmm... wonder if the ladies will buy more if they actually play with his birdie!! (sounds corny, doesn't it?

)

Now jokes aside...

The water behind the HMF is relatively still and running an air stone help to dissipate the surface film and discourage mozzies from breeding there, which is a bonus. However, position the stone only near the surface because we also need anaerobic bacteria for denitrification.

Feel free to experiment with various media and post updates.

**VSGenesis** · 25th Oct 2012, 14:27

Oh my God!! You just didn't say that!! LOL!!!

Near to surface and not all the way down because we still need non needing oxygen bacteria to thrive. Got that. HMF set up on 5 tanks for a month now. So far so good. No mozzies. No surface film either.

**Navanod** · 25th Oct 2012, 16:22

Don't be surprised, Unker's birdies are popular.
My wifey actually brought friends there to "intro" them to the birdies. They didn't get any fishy though, probably because unker did not intro the birdies to them himself.

**felix_fx2** · 25th Oct 2012, 17:58

Can go down talk to unker about it.
Also something about easier topup o water.

Btw, still 3 birdie?

**VSGenesis** · 29th Oct 2012, 13:58

Though I wouldn't have mind purchasing a used HiBlow 40, sadly I wasn't as fortunate enough to come across anyone selling it. Google shows loads of hobbyist selling at a very very reasonable price. (years ago) I remember searching till I dug our own fellow moderators purchasing a bigger model at a very very good price. Haha.

Anyway, after much deliberation and searching google to find out whether 20 or 40 would be ideal, I've decided to go with 40. Price for new is about $200.00 That can get me 11 Gex M Size Tanks!! =( Well, in the name of hobby, sacrifise got to be made... I guess. Sounds pretty similiar with my road bike (not the one with motors) and "that" engagement ring. Hmm..

You know I hear this a lot when someone ask where to get PVC pipes and the usual response is any hardware shop should have. Sadly, its not the case for hardware shops this days. They have elbows, tee joints, plumbing etc but strangely no pipe. I had to ask. As best I could to speak with the right Mandarin intonation with my Malay accent in tow I went to the Chinese man..."Uncle, ne ge PVC pipe ni yo mah?" Sign language ensues. In responds, an old auntie who was sitting by the side fanning herself responded "Xiao Di mei you" No pvc, at least I know I still am young.

Oh well, I was trying to proof a point actually. Hardware stores near you don't usually sell PVC pipes. Regardless if you happen to see them selling the PVC glue, the joints, the tap etc. Anyway, I've been lucky to be living near to Defu. All this while, both personally and for my company we get our supplies from this shops in Defu. If you're a guy, stepping into such shop is like a new world. You become a kid. Millions of things goes into your head..."Eh I can use that to DIY that...eh I can use that to support that...eh I should get this..." Probably it's just me. So for those staying around Hougang/Sengkang, Defu is your best bet. Look for Tat Lee Liong.

Back to the setup, I did a trial using PVC pipe I have left over. Drill hole, place teflon tape on the one way valve thread and insert. Not a tight fit, snug but not tight enough. Use silicon and waited. Went to shower along with the tube. And whatever you might think I did, the answer is no.

So I place an end cap. Took a hose, turn on the tap; my eyes sparkle watching the water coming out from the three valve I used for the trial. Then my sister, "Hurry up will you!!" Sigh, why can't anyone leave a man alone in the toilet to his DIY.

Well, I will update more this week. the only thing I am unsure of is the "adaptor" Hiblow to adaptor to PVC. LFS has them?

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