Green Spots on slow growers in low-maint tank.

[stocker]

Problem and description below. Hopefully I didn;t do anything too wrong... Essentially, I want a low-maint/tech tank, without CO2 or complex fert routines, hopefully I don't have to go that route (wife is very sensitive to additional equipment, although I can change to a 1x20FL i have spare, if that's the solution ) Or is my bioload too high, causing high NO3? Thanks for any help rendered...

Description of problem(s):
-------------------------------
Green spot (algae) on unshaded leaves of Anubias 'Coffeefolia' and some on Java Fern. Those new leaves and those shaded by H. Polysperma do not have this problem. My H. Difformis has no algae and seems to be doing well (growing slowly, but that's the way I want it) H. Polysperma is also quite OK, top exceeds water lever every 2 weeks or so, although the bottom most leaves have mostly dropped off. The Lindernia roundifolia seems (surprisingly) doing well too.

Tank setup
----------------
Age of tank : 5 mths
Dimesions of tank (LxWxH) : 2x1x1ft (Five Plan)
Volume of water : 56L / 15USG according to tank calculator in AQ

Type of Filter (overhead/internal/canister) : Internal Eden 316 w/some porous ceremic rings in one compartment.

Type of lighting (FL/PL/MH) : FL
Lighting Intensity : 2x15W
No. of hours of lighting : 10-11hrs

Type of CO2 (DIY/Liquid/Tank) : Nil
CO2 injection rate (bps)

Substrate used : Normal no brand type
Thickness of base fert : ~2cm
Thickness of gravel : ~6cm

Type of liquid fertilizers used : LGA 1ml/week
Other types of fertilizer used (Root monsters/laterite etc): Seachem Flourish Excel 1ml/2-3days

Temperature of tank : 27-28degC

Other equipment : Nil

Bioload
----------
Flora in tank : H.Difformis, H.Polysperma, Java Moss, Java Fern, Anubias 'Coffeefolia',Lindernia roundifolia
Fauna in tank : 1xSAE, 2xOtto, 9xGlowlight tetra, 5xWhite Cloud, 3xC.Hasbrosus, 2xZebra Snail, unknown x ramshorn snails

[PeterGwee]

Do not fertilize a non-CO2 enriched tank. Instead, balance the amount of critters with the plant load. Also, do not do water changes unless you are going to stir up the substrate or uproot the plants. It may take sometime for things to settle down but once things get going you are fine. A non-CO2 tank is already a limited so you do not want overdo things on the nutrient part unless you plan to start with DIY CO2 to speed things up and then back off later. Add some coral chips to the filter or tank to buffer the water. Not too much though as you are not going to do water changes for some time. Just a very very small amount would do so.

As for the Anubias 'Coffeefolia' and some on Java Fern, trim the infected parts off and do a large water change after that. Get some floating plants (20% of the surface area) to block out the strong light away from the slow growing plants (they are good nutrient absorbers in case you overfeed or so). Remember, do not mix CO2 and non-CO2 methods together.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[stocker]

Thanks PeterGwee!

So I should just backoff just the LGA? I should still use the Excel in small amounts right?

Do I have to do anything to my livestocks?

My Anubias is like slightly off centre of the tank in front of the H. Polysperma, if I put floating plants, wouldn't they all be moving all over the surface? Or perhaps I can get those Umbrella plants to literally "shade the Anubias and change the H. Polysperma to something else more compatible? Any Suggesstions? I thought all along my light is not strong at all...

[PeterGwee]

Stop the fertilization, excel included. Trim off plants infected by the algae and do a large water change after that. Add floaters as nutrients sponges in case you overfeed. Feed your critters regularly for the plants. That is about all that is for a low light non-CO2 tank approach other that a large water change every 3-6 months or so or whenever you uproot the plants.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[vinz]

Just curious, Peter. Why do you recommend stopping Excel? It's meant to be a carbon source only and if I'm remember correctly, it's not usable by algae.

[dts_spawn]

i thought excel acts like a CO2 source?

[vinz]

Not CO2 source... CARBON source. Plants need CO2 for the carbon. Excel was designed to be an alternative or complementary source of carbon.

Anyway, here's an interview with Greg Morin (Research Director at Seachem) about Excel: http://www.aquabotanic.com/carbon.html. I'm pretty sure I read Greg Morin talk about algae not being able to use Excel elsewhere, but its the same as what he says at this link.

[PeterGwee]

Vinz, stocker wants a low maintenance no CO2 method so that is what I recommend. He needs to decide on whether it is a CO2 or non-CO2 method. It is bad to mix the 2 methods together as one is non-limited whereas the other is limiting some nutrients. If he was to go with excel, I would rather he do the DIY CO2 or no addition of carbon at all except for the carbonate source from coral chips.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[vinz]

Ok, I see where you're coming from, Peter.

Stocker, IMO, it's ok to use Excel in this case. Just don't have bright lights. Even in a low/moderate light tank, plants do better with more C or CO2.

With coral chips in the filter, you'll have less control over your GH and KH, especially since you'll be doing less water change (which is probably why Peter said use very little). Higher KH will move your pH upwards and you don't have CO2 to bring it down either. It can work, but you'll need to monitor the KH and GH levels... and either do water changes to lower them if necessary and/or keep tweaking the amount of coral chips you use until you find a sweet spot.

Mg and Ca will come from topping up water lost due to evaporation.

[FC]

With coral chips in the filter, you'll have less control over your GH and KH, especially since you'll be doing less water change (which is probably why Peter said use very little). Higher KH will move your pH upwards and you don't have CO2 to bring it down either

Vinz,

Not quite. Coral chips is a very stable form of CaCO3. It will dissolve mainly from acidic water and to lesser extend through abrasion. In another words, in non-CO2 tank, it is hardly dissolved and if water does turn acidic due to fish poos, it came in to buffer. It would do not add much hardness in such case but good form of natural and mild buffer.

That's why coral chips are very popular among pond fish keepers.

Regards,
Freddy Chng
www.killies.com

[stocker]

Thanks very much everyone for the help.

So in summary, my action plan is
1) Trim off all infected leaves and do a large water change (~60%?)
2) Put in some coral chips in the filter small compartment, perhaps 3-4 pieces
3) Sell away my LGA (any takers, it's been used like 3ml only )
4) Large water changes (~60%?) every 3-6mths.
5) Be Patient and watch the ecosystem grow slowly


OK, last questions, just to be sure...
1) Live stock level is OK, no change required?
2) Lighting level OK, or change to 20W?
3) Plant selection OK, or change to lower light requirement species? I am open to a partial rescape, I think the H. Polysperma is not optimal too. But I do want something that can hide the filter like it.

Thanks all, great board!

[PeterGwee]

1) Live stock level is OK, no change required?

Should be fine...

2) Lighting level OK, or change to 20W?

Keep the light settings for now but add some floating plants as nutrient sponges.

3) Plant selection OK, or change to lower light requirement species? I am open to a partial rescape, I think the H. Polysperma is not optimal too. But I do want something that can hide the filter like it.

The plant selection is up to you.. Just pack the tank with as much plant mass as you can put in. Folks often plant too little and wait for things to grow in which is wrong. Plant heavily and you will have less issues.

For a non-CO2 tank, you might need some tweaking around with the amount of feeding and stock level. Too much and you get algae...too little and your plants don't grow or die off.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[stocker]

Allright! Thanks Peter and guys! Hey that sounds like a hair saloon in town doesn't it...

[stocker]

Hi all,

OK, did as adviced, and tank looks a lot better without those algae spotted leaves. Also removed the moss lawn, as it looks kinda overgrown, and more space for my cories to dig too!

Anyway, now I seek some advice on how to scape it, according to the low-maint requirements. Also, the H.Polysperma seems to be a little more nutrient hungry than what's available (got some pin holes on mid-lower leaves), will H. Corymbosa "siamensis" or some others be better?

Here's how it looks (with and without a bridge driftwood... ), sorry for the not so clear water as it has not settled down yet. Also additional filter just behind thermometer to help clear the water, pls ignore :P
http://www.arofanatics.com/members/s...ftplantedtank/

Again, appreciate any help/advice/comments!

[stocker]

Got a question that I couldn't find an answer on. Would it still be relatively low-maint if i added a low-doseage CO2, e.g. a 2L cylinder pumping in like 1bubble per 2-3secs split into 2 tanks? My objective is not fast growth, but rather health and sustainability of the eco-system in the tank. I have approx 1.4 and 2wpg in 2x 2-footers.

Advice anyone? thanks in advance!

[vinz]

Yes, it's fine. As long as you keep the tank low light you shouldn't have too much problems. The plants will probably do better with it.

Do note everytime you change something (like switching to injecting CO2) in your tank, there's a chance the balance will be thrown off and algae might come in. You'll need to balance things again. In this case, the risk should be quite low, but nothing is for certain.