Red plants in a high light tank

[scang7]

hi..

I am presently using about 72W for my 2ft tank and my CO2 level is in the range of 40ppm. Pushed it so high to avoid any low level cause by lack of CO2.

The question is how then do u keep the NO3 level at a moderately low level to have the red in your plants showing? (read from some of the threads on the forum) I have been trying to get a good level but dun seemed to be able to do that.

Too low algae pop out. Too high, the red not obvious.

The red plants in my tank are the sunset hygro and Rotala rotundifolia.The sunset hygro only have its top leaves in a slight pink and a Pinkish hue is observed for the rotala...

I am dosing 1/8 teaspoon of KNO3 every 2 days. with 0.6ppm of phosphate and 4ml of Seachem fluorish. water change is 25% every 3 days to prevent build up of nitrate. KH is at abt 4 and GH at abt 6.

With this dosing compared to my 2 times dosing a week,
1) i am still experiencing BBA but seemed to be slower after the increase in the CO2 level.

2) the growth of my hottonia seemed to be very slow compared to before where growth is pretty fast. the top leaves of some of the lower-stemmed hottonia will tend to turn yellowish whitish and drop off.

3)plants in the tank seemed to be pearling very much lesser. (is that a prob?)

Suggested move, change my 2 x 36W tubes to a lower of 2 x 18W to allow better control of NO3.. but i quite inclined to sticking with the high wattage. Really wanna to be able to learn to control the fert input.

Cheers
Chris

[PeterGwee]

Keep up on the regime but back off slowly on the KNO3 till you get the colour you want. Increase feeding for the fish waste which will supply the ammonia enough to keep the plants from stunting yet not too much till you get algae. You can also increase the PO4 dosage up to 1ppm per dose. Keep a close eye on the CO2 throughout the regime and make sure it is in good range. If it falls too low at any time of the photoperiod, things will go sour. Its always better to keep the plants on the slightly greener side of things rather then really red.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[leroyfong]

Peter,

If we back off slowly on KNO3, and yet dose PO4 at 1ppm. Will it lead to possible algae growth esp BGA or GW? Should it be that PO4 increased slowly as well until balance is maintained while backing off on KNO3 base on visible algae growth?

[scang7]

Thanks.. looking at that.. what is the basis of backing off on KNO3 and increasing feeding...does that not balance out in the end?

another question, realise that some of the leaves of my sunset hygro are kind of like melting off.. turning transparent. Possible that it's just getting use to my water condition? (abt a week now)

some of the tips of the leaves are the stargrass is black.. is that a sign of any form of deficiency or excess?

[PeterGwee]

leroyfong, I mention that he needs to feed the critters more for the ammonia instead of NO3 to prevent things from bottoming out. You don't need to be that accurate with nutrients especially PO4. But that doesn't mean you can go overboard.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[PeterGwee]

The ammonia contributed by critters are relatively low unless you have too much fish or overfed. The point here is to keep the plants from stunting from lack of nitrogen and it has to come from somewhere in relatively small pulses which the critters can provide. If the amount of ammonia produced were to equal the NO3 added, the critters would be dead. Ammonia needs to be in substantial amount in order to equal the NO3 we add and is toxic in that kind of amount.

Telling what nutrients is missing from deficiencies is difficult. It can be NO3 for the hygro and PO4 for the stargrass. I would rather do a large water change to reset the nutrients and then dose back to good amounts. Keeping nutrients at slight excess amount is better that running out.

One more thing, trying to keep plants red in a very high light tank is tricky. You might want to lower it to 2-2.5w/g range instead and dose once or twice per week.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[leroyfong]

I just started a 2ft with rotundifolia as well. But has not added any critters within except Yamato shrimps. In such case, how can I maintain the redness of the rotundifolia due to lack of critters? Your advise appreciated.

[scang7]

hi leroy,

not too sure if i am right.. from my readings in the forum. I figure that a good red can be maintain if you have a good level in NO3.. say abt 5ppm. But i feel that it is very difficult to maesure NO3 well. Have to use the estimate personally

The problem lies with the amount of light u have. Too high light tank like mine can deplete the amount of NO3 fast. Thus making the low level difficult to maintain. Guess that's why Peter sugggested lowering the input of KNO3 (to allow red at a lower level) but feeding more to maintain the NO3 level at a respectable amt.

Hope i am right. Stand to be corrected.

Cheers
Chris

[PeterGwee]

leroyfong, get a good NO3 kit like those of LaMotte or Hach then.

You can do the same routine of backing off from the KNO3 but go for slightly greener growth than totally red. Add more critters can also help but not too much. Low bioload is always a better thing.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[barmby]

Contradicting. Tom Barr mentioned "red will come out if you add more NO3"

Elaborate further?

[Sleepy_lancs]

Hmm.. I beg to differ. I think we are putting too much emphasis on NO3. It becomes dangerous low easily in a high light tank. How about keeping NO3 btw 5-10ppm but increase your PO4. When I do that, I do get redder plants. Just don't push over to 1.2ppm since over that amount don't seem to make the plant look any redder but your risk of having algae becomes more apparent. 0.5 ppm is a good start.

[PeterGwee]

Why do you think when you add more PO4, your plants get redder? Something will get use up faster than when it is low. Now, find the thing that will get use up faster. The kit that you are using is not going to cut it. Try bumming the NO3 up to 10ppm+ or more and you will get a green plant regardless of how much light you blast at it.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[juggler]

[quote:b7ba999220="PeterGwee"]Keep up on the regime but back off slowly on the KNO3 till you get the colour you want. Increase feeding for the fish waste which will supply the ammonia enough to keep the plants from stunting yet not too much till you get algae. You can also increase the PO4 dosage up to 1ppm per dose. Keep a close eye on the CO2 throughout the regime and make sure it is in good range. If it falls too low at any time of the photoperiod, things will go sour. Its always better to keep the plants on the slightly greener side of things rather then really red.

Regards
Peter Gwee [/quote:b7ba999220]

I never dose NO3. But I feed my fish generously 2~3 times a day. Maybe that helps to keep my plants red?

I still dose the other macronutrients K and P.

[scang7]

hi koah,

for the no dosage of NO3, are u having a high light tank of about 5W/G?

[juggler]

[quote:8809276287="scang7"]hi koah,

for the no dosage of NO3, are u having a high light tank of about 5W/G?[/quote:8809276287]

For that tank which I think the plants are red enough, the WPG is 3.8. My L.brevipes and L.arcuata are able to show the redness.

[theodore]

1/8 teaspoon of KNO3 into a 60L tank (approx for 2ft) will give you 7ppm of NO3 per dose.

What are you using for K? If it is just KNO3 (and a little KH2PO4), I suspect that the algae outbreak you got when you lowered KNO3 dosage is due to low/zero K and not N.

If you really want to limit NO3 to bring out redness in your plants, consider using another source for K and preparing a stock solution of KNO3 so that you can dose 1-2ppm every couple of days.

Btw, 4mL of Flourish every 2 days is quite a lot for a 60L tank. You may want to save some $ by cutting that dosage.

[scang7]

Thanks theodore...

looks like things are back in action for u huh...

i tend to believe it was pretty high initially but without this dosage of nutrient things go quite haywired.

BBA outbreak was probably due to low CO2 2 weeks ago.. things are returning into shape now after the increase.

spot algae reduced after an increase of 2 x 5ml of fluorish to 3 x 4ml.

i did dose K2SO4 when i reduce my NO3 dosage but dun think that helps with the BBA. Seemed to little NO3 for my plants. Taking the recommendation from Juggler to feed the critters more and see how things goes from here...

[Sleepy_lancs]

Why do you think when you add more PO4, your plants get redder? Something will get use up faster than when it is low. Now, find the thing that will get use up faster. The kit that you are using is not going to cut it. Try bumming the NO3 up to 10ppm+ or more and you will get a green plant regardless of how much light you blast at it.

Regards
Peter Gwee

If you lower NO3 with high light, it can lead to NO3 Deficiency soon. I am not even using any test kit I use my macrandra as a judge. Weekly dosing of NO3 of 13 to 15 ppm. Original PO4 was at 0.3 with weak colouring however, when I increase it to 0.5, I was rewarded a red and lovely plant. PO4 merely enhances the redness but not the solution. What I meant is to not to limit NO3 just to get the redness out. It could be other nutrients needing to play their part.

[PeterGwee]

I got your point there....I think we are on the same wavelength here.

I told scang7 to back off on the KNO3 dosage as recommended dosage for the estimative index method is based off a very high light system (5w/g or more) and that means excess in nutrients will occur when you are doing lower light. With excess NO3, plants will green up when the amount is over 10ppm or so. His tank is clearly not eating that much and that means he needs to lower the NO3 in order bring out the redness. Do take note that I did warn him not to go for blood red colours but slightly on the greener side of things in case the NO3 bottom out which will definitely cause problems.

Regards
Peter Gwee

[Sleepy_lancs]

Another point to note is, if you have been playing with your lights. That can be another reason for not having reddish plants. Do turn your lights on and off at regular hours and have it at least 10 hours minimum