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No expert on this, but don't know why the auntie laugh, for shrimps its possible, can't say for fish.
Hi AQers,
I'm a beginner to aquariums and would like to set up a very simple nanotank with aquatic plants and tiny longkang fish. In our tropical climate, is it possible to cultivate a self-sustaining setup whereby the plants provide fish for the critters and the critters (shrimp or fish etc.) give nitrates to the plants? No filters, no pumps, all natural. The neighborhood fish shop auntie laughed at me and told me to go back after all my plants and creatures die, but I still want to try.
Experts out there -- do you think it's possible? I'm starting out with a bag of aquatic soil, dehumidifier water and one leafy aquatic plant just to let the system "sit and settle" for a while before going to catch some longkang fish.
Any advice would be much appreciated, thanks!
It's possible to run such setups... i've dabbled in keeping small cookie jars with moss and shrimps, to buckets of water outdoors with plants and fishes, up to container gardens with both fishes and shrimps.
It's commonly referred to as walstad method or "el natural" (google those words to find out more). The book by Diana Walstad "Ecology of a Planted Aquarium" has many sections with examples of such setups. Try and get a copy of the book to read, very useful material.
How successful and stable a self-sustaining tank can be depends mainly on the balance between bio-load waste/nutrient production and the plants nutrient take up rate and photosynthesis. Achieving a precise balance is difficult, but possible.
Tank size and volume will determine how much bio-load you can keep, bearing in mind that without a filter, the tank's own beneficial bacteria population will be much smaller, so the majority of the bio-load will have to be handled by the plants instead, therefore the size and number of livestock would also have to be way less than in a filtered tank.
As always, larger tank water volume = more stable water parameters + slower build up of toxic conditions.
For such setups, ideally you should use fast growing adaptable plants that can grow in a wide range of conditions. Good examples are water wisteria, water sprite, hornwort, HM etc. With sufficient light, they can soak up excess nutrients quickly and help keep the water conditions clean.
Floating plants like frogbits, salvinia natans/minima, dwarf water lettuce etc are even better, especially with ample light sources. They can soak up even more nutrients due to the fact that they take Co2 directly from the air, so they have a big advantage in terms of growth compared to submerged plants.
As for livestock, choose fishes that can also adapt to wide ranges of water conditions and can perform a dual role of maintaining the tank (not just eat and poop, any fish can do that). It's a certainty that algae will grow in such tanks so ideal fishes could be guppies, or more specifically endlers (due to their smaller size, easier to control the bio-load). Part of their diet includes algae, so they can help to manage it too.
Cherry or malayan shrimps are also suitable for such tanks, their algae eating capability and general clean-up crew ability are ideal for self-sustaining tank systems.
Do note that if you really go all natural setup and use only sunlight as the light source, then that will affect plant growth and consequently the entire system, mainly due to the variations in weather and light conditions on a day to day basis, or even just throughout the course of a day.
Just remember that the more random the various input sources, expect to see more random results... while the more stable and predictable the input sources, the more stable and predictable the results.
Enjoy your experiments!
Last edited by Urban Aquaria; 17th Mar 2015 at 23:36.
She was friendly about it, but I guess she wanted to sell filters and pumps
Thank you very much, Urban Aquaria, for a super comprehensive reply.
Lots of helpful information and references. I'll start with the plants, and have downloaded pictures of the ones you mentioned to go shopping in the neighborhood tonight. The floating plants will definitely help, I think. Endlers sound like a great choice of fish - I didn't know that they eat algae, well, I didn't even know that such a species exist!
By the way, I like the tanks that you've created (from your website). Amazing stuff.
It is possible for self-sustainable tank - totally enclosed - check ecosphere but for an open tank - evaporation will occur - requiring topping up of water - can use rain water as in an open air natural environment.
It is possible for a aquarium to exist without filter, air-pump (with electrical power) but would require regular top-up of water and minimum feeding - aquarium should have well-balanced plants/snails/fish or shrimp to have a self-maintaining ecosystem. Read up more before attempt as failure is the mother of any success. Good Luck.
Thank you, cdckjn.
Yes, mine will be an open tank so I will definitely have to top up. Rain water is a good idea!
Plants -> then snails -> then fish or shrimp seems to be the best order to do it.
Based on your and other experts' advice, I'll set up a good plant environment first.
Looking forward to learning as I go along and not killing (too many) things.
Hi - This is my Walstad tank....
Dimensions - 120cm x 45cm x 45cm open top by full length window facing NNW.
Filter - Ipomoea aquatica (kang kong) as main filter, other plants and mosses as secondary filter
(Ipomoea also acts as a curtain to shield the sun in the months with direct sun in the evening.
Chiller - No chiller but fan cooled with circulation by air pump with 4 outlets providing temperature of 23.5C-26.5C
Substrate - $1.50-2.00 garden soil from local Nursery 1.5" topped by fine gravel 1".
(The gravel was a mistake - should have used coarse sand)
Lighting - 48W LED lights 120cm
Inhabitants include -
Shrimps : Cherry shrimps (have multiplied beyond count), Malayan shrimps
Corydoras : Pygmaeus, Habrosus
Gobies : Rainbow gobies, neon gobies
Loaches : Kuhli loaches, Hovering zebra loaches, Panda loaches
Boraras : Urophthalmoides, maculatus, and a handful brigittae
Tetras : Gold tetras, Ruby tetras, Amber tetras & couple of surviving cardinals
Danio etc : Galaxies, Rummy nosed rasbora
Livebearers : Male endlers, halfbeaks
Others : otos, indostomus crocodilus
Trying to include : dario dario, clown killifish
I made many mistakes during the setup and after too.
1) Dry start method didn't work out well. In fact direct planting worked better for me.
2) Lighting was initially too low and caused my hc and several other plants to float off.
3) Didn't soak the driftwood enough and water is still brown even after 6 months.
More trials...
I didn't have a quarantine tank, and had die-offs due to new fish bringing in white spot disease.
Cannot use commercial medicine due to shrimp population.
Used anti-biotics, which resulted in further die-offs due to bacteria bloom.
Used heater but resulted in even more die offs.
Finally as about to give up when I decided to try using crushed garlic for a week.
It worked like a miracle and saved my fishes from further deaths.
Now maybe it didn't get rid of the white spot totally.
But I'm no longer seeing it on my fish so I'm happy.
The video is below. Water a bit cloudy due to overfeeding (my sin!)
They are feasting on live moina.
As you also can see I'm lazy to remove plants which had floated up.
But my experiment indicates to me that it is possible to do Aquascaping using Walstad method.
Last edited by Il Pirata; 21st Mar 2015 at 14:15.
Is Ipomoea aquatica the same Kang kong we buy from market?
Yes it is. It is the fastest growing emersed plant that i know of, having tried several including pandan. Based on my internet search, it is second only to water hyacinth in its ability to absorb excess nutrients and pollutants. Unlike water hyacinth it will grow in light shade.
do you just buy from market and throw it into the tank? Do I need soil to grow it ?Originally Posted by Il Pirata
My old all-natural container (a translucent plastic tub with a removable/adjustable cover) with no filtration was left in a cool shaded spot with a short period of direct sunlight. Only plants in that tub was hornwort and some water lettuce. I placed some crushed shells at the bottom to provide calcium for my Malayan Trumpet Snails and kept a bunch of wild-caught "longkang" guppies in there. The fish get a light sprinkling of food twice every day in the early morning and in the evenings. I only topped up the water with aged tap water and trimmed the hornwort every 2 weeks or so. The guppies stayed in there and went through 3-4 generations before dying off due to a stupid mistake I made. If your container has a decent growth of green algae, be it hairy or the crusted type, it will be even more fantastic for the fish. No soil or anything else, just fish and snail poop sustaining the plants and the addition of fish food to their diet to help kick in the cycle. They got live Moina once a week back then and all was well. Population was in control and I never had more than 10 guppies at any time in that container since it was slightly larger than a 1 foot tank so the adults typically picked off the weaker fry as they popped out. I think the dimensions was approximately 40 x 25 x 20cm.
I only spent money on the plastic tub and a container of flake food in the beginning. That colony of guppies started with 3 pairs I caught and every 3-4 weeks I would find young ones of different sizes throughout the tub. Hornwort and water lettuce came from a friend of mine.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
Yes its direct from the market. I planted it in the soil since its a requirement of Wakstad tanks. But it also produces roots in the water column. Note that it will not produce leaves under water though new shoots may appear. I hide the plant behind large drift wood for esthetic needs.
That's a pretty huge tank for Diana Walstad's method. While I admire the courage to set up such tanks, there is always a question on mind - why would people go for that when a manicured tank would enhance the aesthetics of a house as compared to that where the plants grow messy and all over. Wild is the word. Doesnt do much to convince wives / parents to commit such a huge space which does not beautify the house.
I may be wrong though; just that I have not seen a walstad tank which looks aesthetically pleasing after a while.
I would try that method for a small tank though - for that matter - I am starting up one with garden soil but for a nano.
Holy is the Lord, God Almighty ! The Earth is filled with His Glory !
90 x 50 x 50 cm tank: Eheim 2217; ANS CO2 Solenoid with 60mm intense bazooka; Zetlight 6400; Teco 500 Chiller; Borneo Wild Steel inlet/outlet
Ferts: Dry Mixture/Dr Mallicks. Temp: 26 degrees Substrate: ADA Amazonia
20150405_09495_edit_1428199004717.jpg
Sorry for the delay. Here's the pic of setup.
Walstad tank need not be messy. If her tanks look messy its because she chose it so. I'm planning to use her method to create a proper aquascape. I do not believe in all the paraphernalia of Amano tanks such as artificial substrates, filters, chillers and co2. My goal is a lower maintenance and lower cost tank which may appeal to some others put off by that required for Amano tanks. More patience is needed, and much thinking. So far nothing failed because its Walstad. Rather some things failed due to my errors.
IL pirata, do you have cherry shrimps to spare? Mine for no reason got wiped out
Understand your approach. Do not get me wrong. I really do not mind doing Walstad... Like I said, it just does not justify having a tank that does no more to improve the house aesthetically. Most of them look like a pond with glass walls.
Anyway we all have our preferences. Keep on experimenting! Whether Walstad or Amano, both require lots of patience.
Holy is the Lord, God Almighty ! The Earth is filled with His Glory !
90 x 50 x 50 cm tank: Eheim 2217; ANS CO2 Solenoid with 60mm intense bazooka; Zetlight 6400; Teco 500 Chiller; Borneo Wild Steel inlet/outlet
Ferts: Dry Mixture/Dr Mallicks. Temp: 26 degrees Substrate: ADA Amazonia
Thank you bros and sis's for sharing your experiences and specs. I'm benefitting a lot from your advice and am learning much from mistakes too! Just wanted to share what happened so far.
Il Pirata: Wow, Kang Kong and crushed garlic! One of my neon tetras are showing seems to be white fungi growth so I will try the garlic tonight. Home remedies are great. I'll kapo some Kang Kong from my groceries to see how they grow. Your tank is huge compared to mine but I read somewhere that larger tanks are better for Walstad setups so that makes sense! Oh well, when I move to a bigger place… The variety of animals you have is amazing.
Stormhawk: Loved your "old all-natural container" and basic approach because I really want to achieve that eventually although I've deviated from it somewhat. Simplicity is bliss.
Phillipians: I understand where you're coming from and agree that beauty can be found in different ways. I am constantly amazed by carefully-maintained, manicured planted tanks that my friends have.
Okay for what it's worth:
Tank dimensions: 40 x 25 x 20cm
Equipment: Airpump
Orientation: Slanted natural lighting from a south-facing window
Water: Tap water treated with a capful of the common blue chemical found in LFSs.
Substrate: Black aquatic soil bought from a LFS.
Feed: Common fish flakes.
I started out with two leafy plants bought from a LFS and the above substrate, letting it sit for a week. But I made a terrible mistake by using water from my dehumidifier - which I didn't realize contained heavy traces of copper. The plants seemed okay, so I added small freshwater tilapia and crawfish/yabbies caught from a local reservoir. Catastrophic move, because they sadly died a few hours later. Whether it was due to the lack of oxygen (the fishes started gasping near the surface and the crawfish climbed the plant stems to emerge from the water). Terrible, irresponsible mistake. Felt super sian.
This initial experience taught me to investigate parameters more carefully.
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