White Cloud Mountain Minnow

[Asgard]

Hello all,

I'm trying to setup a White Cloud (Tanichthys albonubus) habitat/biotope tank, questions about that have I placed in this: http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...157#post390157 thread.

I have the red colored variant like shown here: http://www.aqualog.de/news/news_pdfen/news25e.pdf
Sometimes mentioned as A.lini (linni) or A. pooni, but I understand corectly that it is a natural color variant of the Tanichthys albonubes?
Does/did this red variant exist in nature at the same locations as the Tanichthys albonubes?, or from a different region/habitat or is it a breeded variant? It doesn't seem to be long-finned, so I think they're no Meteor minnows
I've also seen T. albonubes with yellow edges around the fins, not white, is this a natural occuring variant, or bred?

hope someones has the answers....or some of them....

[Quixotic]

Just a thought, if Aphyocypris lini (linni [sic]) is a natural colour variant of Tanichthys albonubes, surely the use of another scientific name for them is odd. If they are mere variants, all of them would just be T. albonubes, aren't they?

Fishbase has an interesting not-so-clear picture of A. lini. First impression is that it looks similar to T. albonubes, but it seems to have features of a different fish (shape of fins are different). Most other pictures of A. lini on the Internet don't seem to correspond to the picture in Fishbase.
http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/Pictu...4&what=species

Hmm... MrTree should be able to tell us more.

[Asgard]

Just a thought, if Aphyocypris lini (linni [sic]) is a natural colour variant of Tanichthys albonubes, surely the use of another scientific name for them is odd. If they are mere variants, all of them would just be T. albonubes, aren't they?

Well.. either that, or an old name is still in use, like R. wui for the R. duospilus etc.

I quote: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...yocypris-pooni
The fish are sold in the aquarium trade under a variety of similar names, including White Cloud, White Cloud Mountain fish, White Cloud minnow, etc. The names Canton or China danio and cardinal fish are also encountered. In Chinese the fish is known as 唐魚 (táng wén), 廣東細鯽 (Guǎngdōng xìjì), or 潘氏細鯽 (pānshì xìjì). Aphyocypris pooni is an obsolete synonym for this species; it was coined to designate a color variety which is now known to be the same species as the White Cloud Mountain Minnow.

or: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u...ad.php?t=20653
Scientific name: Tanichthys albonubes, Lin, 1932
Synonyms: Aphyocypris pooni, Herre 1939

and: http://www.jstor.org/pss/1441136
Aphyocypris pooni Lin is shown to be a junior homonym of Aphyocypris pooni Herre and the latter is found to be a synonym of Tanichthys albonubes Lin. Lin's species is referred to the genus Hemigrammocypris Fowler, which is redefined. A new name, Hemigrammocypris lini, is proposed for Aphyocypris pooni Lin. Both Hemigrammocypris lini and Tanichthys albonubes are redescribed and the latter is shown to consist of at least two different color variations, apparently representing populations from Hong Kong and White Cloud Mountain near Canton, China. The genus Tanichthys is redefined and some possible relationships of Tanichthys and Hemigrammocypris to other minnow genera are discussed.

Fishbase has an interesting not-so-clear picture of A. lini. First impression is that it looks similar to T. albonubes, but it seems to have features of a different fish (shape of fins are different). Most other pictures of A. lini on the Internet don't seem to correspond to the picture in Fishbase.
http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/Pictu...4&what=species

That's where the problem is: there are sites like the one you are refering to that show a slightly different fish or at least write of them as being seperate species.
Just want to get to the bottom of this, I'm confused right now.

Hmm... MrTree should be able to tell us more.

I really hope so.

[hwchoy]

the sites you quoted clearly mention that A. pooni being a synonym (contextually taken to mean a junior synonym) which means it is no longer valid. until new studies and evidence they are known as T. albonubes

actually you mentioned "an old name is still in use". this is in fact the correct rule, an old name (referring to the specific epithet only) takes precedent over newer ones, which becomes a junior synonym.

[Asgard]

@Quixotic, hwchoy, thanks!

Ok, so scientificly there is only one species (T. albonubes) for both color strains. Some (the aquarium trade mostly) still use the old synonyms (A. pooni, A. lini) to refer to the red colored variant.
one down..

one to go...
I understand that the red form is a natural occuring variant of the T. albonubes species, do/did both variants inhabit the same habitat or do/did they live in seperate regions. Are/where there mixed populations?

[hwchoy]

I am under the impression that T. albonubes only occur around the type locality which is White Cloud Mountain and its surrounding area. sorry I have no idea about all these other "colour strains" which could well be elevated to species rank in future research.

[Asgard]

I'm only refering to the 2 colour strains, the best jknow one (with the white edges around the fins) and the supposedly natural occuring (greenyellow) red finned variant, Long-finned and golden White Clouds are man made variants.
As far as I know the White Mountains areas are the (only) natural habitat, but since there seem to be 2 natural (in the wild occuring) colour strains, I was wondering if they inhabit(ed) different streams, or mixed at some places.
If they didn't mix, I won't put both variants in my tank, if mixed populations is a natural occuring thing, I might. (I probally will)
I read they interbreed quite easy, but don't know the result (looks) of interbreeded specimens.

[tangjyd]

White Cloud Mountain Minnow, how many are required usually for them to shoal?

[Asgard]

They're shoaling very losely, I have 14 in a 60L tank. Most of them stick together but there are always a few wandering off.

[lampeye]

Bump.

I'd always heard that Tanichthys was extinct in the wild, but I also recall, sometime in the past 2-3 years, someone mentioning a new population had been found. Anybody confirm/deny?

[Asgard]

http://www.springerlink.com/content/512721778718n18k/
A lot, 10.000 specimens were released in the wild in 2001 2002 http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.people.com.cn%2FGB%2Fhuanbao%2F1074%2F2626168.html&sl=zh-CN&tl=en?, so it's not quit clear if the in 2003 found specimens were original wild ones or captive bread specimens.
Read somwhere that original wild specimens didn't get bigger then a total lenght of 4cmTL captive bread released specimens reach up to 6cm, no more link on that one.

[tonicwater]

I have mine (around 20) for more than 1 1/2 year and it remain around 2cm to 3 cm.

[hwchoy]

I read they interbreed quite easy, but don't know the result (looks) of interbreeded specimens.

if they don't interbreed they would be, by definition, two separate species.

Mr. Tree had told me, sometime in the last two years, that he had come across populations in secluded areas of the type locality (which is a sizeable mountain area).

[Asgard]

I have mine (around 20) for more than 1 1/2 year and it remain around 2cm to 3 cm.

Wow! wished mine would stay that small. That's about the size wild populatios are described.
I've bought mine (15of the 'meteor minnow' variant), last summer, a few months old, and kept half of them outside (with RCS) until october, the other half stayed outside until januari (temps outside dropped to -12C for more then a week) and lost 2 fishes and about a third of the RCS. The fishes which I took in in october reach about 6cm TL in my tank (Juwel Rekord60) they're a little bit bigger then my Rhinogobius duospilus fishes. The other half sayed smaller abot 4cm TL. Also bouhgt 6 WCCM with the white rm around the fins, never had them ouside, they stay around 4-5cm TL.

Has anybody information about (aquatic)plants that grow in their (WCMM)natural habitat? I've read that Microsorium pteropus occurs in South China, but no confirmation of people with actual local knowledge.

[lampeye]

Interesting...but there are lot of fish out there that do grow larger in captivity...but it's also possible that a bit of selection might have taken place. hm.

Thanks all!

[Asgard]

"Chinese scientists have discovered another wild population of the White Cloud Mountain minnow, Tanichthys albonubes, in the southern Chinese island of Hainan."
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.u....php?news=2073